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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : PRE-TRIBBERS: Would You Fall Away if You Found Yourselves in the Trib Periods? ...

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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374

 PRE-TRIBBERS: Would You Fall Away if You Found Yourselves in the Trib Periods? ...

[i][color=0033FF]Holy Spirit, in the name of Jesus and to the glory and honor of the Father, may the love of Jesus and His perfect peace reign supreme over this thread, and may You as our heaven sent Counsellor lead us into all truth to our spiritual well being ... Amen[/color][/i]

Beloved fellow saints ...

By God's grace i've become the type of Christian who doesn't really care about "WHEN" the Church gets Raptured, that's God's prerogative so whenever He does it "it is well with my soul" because i know from scripture (and that's all i need to know) at some point He will ... What (i believe) He's causing me to do in the interim is to become more concerned about the spiritual integrity, and overall welfare of His Church (saints), and our all important work of the "white-topped" harvesting of the souls of our fellow vessels of mercy not yet brought into His store house ...The spiritual integrity and welfare of the saints, specifically to those who believe in pre-trib Rapture, is the reason for this thread and here's why ... i know amongst us there are three beliefs about the timing of the Rapture ... Pre-Trib ... Mid-Trib ... and Post Great Trib ...

Saints who leave it all up to God timing i don't have any concern for at all ... i've not to much concern for the Mid-Tribs because if they find themselves past seeing the harbinger of the Great Trib (the abomination of desolation standing in the Holy Place) they've already expected to endure the Trib and so i don't think it'll be to far a stretch for them to just go on in integrity thru the Great Trib (altho having to make the decision as to taking the mark might shake away a few) ... And the Post GreatTribs also i have no concern about because they're already expecting to go thru it all anyhow ...

[color=CC0000] Who i do have concern for is the Pre-Tribs, which it seems the majority of the Church today is comprised of, those who believe that we'll escape all the fiery "faith-testing" madness of these periods ... And so i wondered: "If you don't die on this side would you be a part of the great falling away of 2 Thes. 2: 1-5 if you found yourself in the Trib periods? ... Would it be so devastating to what you've believed all this time that you'd think yourself betrayed by God, and The Left Behind series?" ...[/color]

Earlier this year (due to a few threads here on SI - God Bless SI) bro Ironman and i were having a conversation in which he said, "Bro - from what i'm getting from scripture i don't think we're getting out Pre-Trib" ... To be perfectly honest that irrated me, but i'd surrendered enough to Holy Spirit that my surface reaction was a whole lot more dove-ish than what was kicking on my insides ... He had just went negative at one of my core beliefs, and any honest saint will own up to that that's almost taboo with many of us ... So i just brushed the subject away nicely, while bro Ironman graciously allowed it (him being a Post-Trib), and he and i came to the conclusion of being Pan-Tribs (meaning the "when" of the rapture will all pan out as we go) ... But our Lord has not allowed me to brush it away (tho i've tried - as with a few other subjects He's pricked me with via bro Ironman ), and has been dealing with me regarding this subject since (thus this thread) ...

[b][color=CC0000]i used to be a staunch Pre-Tribber ...[/color][/b] Mainly because when i first got saved almost three decades ago that's what i was taught, plus everything in the footnotes of my old Ryrie Study Bible on this subject said so (then just yesterday i found a contradiction in it's Rapture timing footnotes i'd not seen before) ... Now i'm not so sure anymore that the Church will be raptured out Pre-trib ...

[b][color=CC0000]Lately i've been obsessing before God about 2 Thes. 2's "great falling away" because Paul was talking to the Church about this ... i think about it because in talking to so many saints i think they reflect what the majority of saints think today, that always such occurences as this are future, in some Bible prophecy to be fulfilled after we die, or after we're Raptured, but never that it could occur in our own lifetime, and never that we'd ever be confronted with such tough issues as enduring the happenings of the Tribs that might strain one to turning our backs on The Way ... i believe many will soon fall away here in America once our economy hits the skids and the foul prosperity gospel debunked ... But now i'm also beginning to wonder just what would happen to Pre-Tribs if they found themselves in the Trib periods ... Would such a rude awakening shake them in, and from, the faith? ... [/color][/b]

Recently on SI there have been a couple of threads that brought home the point that there are only two endtime enmasse resurrections in scripture ...

[b]- The First Ressurection ...

[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: [b][color=CC0000]and the dead in Christ shall rise first:[/color][/b]
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

[b][color=CC0000]--- What struck me here is the word "first" ...[/color][/b]

[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by [b][color=CC0000]our gathering together unto him,[/color][/b]
[2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for [b][color=CC0000]that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;[/color][/b]
[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
[5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

[b][color=CC0000]--- What struck me here is "our gathering together unto Him" being linked with "for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" ... That doesn't happen until Mid-Trib ... Then ...[/color][/b]

[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: [b][color=CC0000]and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;[/color][/b] and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[b][color=CC0000]--- What struck me here is "How can the beheaded and those who didn't take the mark be amongst the first resurrection if 1 Thes. 4:16 takes place Pre-Trib, but these saints are killed in the Great-Trib?... For me something just doesn't jive here and it makes me wonder if the Pre-Trib notion is valid ...[/color][/b]

[b]- The Second Ressurection ...

Rev. 20:5, 11-15[/b]

--- There've been many a thread here on SI debating (often arguing) back and forth about who has the correct timing ... As i said previously this thread is not about that tho every saint has to post as they believe led of our Lord to do so, and if it's our Lord's leading all posts will reflect his love and peace ...

[color=CC0000]Again, i'm not interested in debating or arguing, what i'm interested in is for every Pre-Tribber to pro-actively ask yourselves (just in case) ...[/color]

[b][color=CC0000]"Would i Fall Away if i Found Myself in the Trib Periods?" ...[/color][/b]

 2007/8/12 15:49Profile

Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: PRE-TRIBBERS: Would You Fall Away if You Found Yourselves in the Trib Periods? ..

"The thing that matters most to God is that
his people be found ready to rule as the
Bride of Jesus when He returns. There are
so many warnings about being unprepared
[see Matt 24:42-51 Luke 21:34-36 I Thess
5:2-3] parables that tell the fate of
those who are not faithful and do not keep
watch [see Matt 25:1-3 Luke 12:35-40] and
the pleadings of a loving God who "does not
have any pleasure in the death of the wicked"
[Ezek 33:11] We should pay great heed to the
godly advice of the great apostle:
"Test yourselves to see if you are in the
faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not
recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus
Christ is in you--unless indeed you fail
the test?" [II Cor 13:5]"

Martin G. Smith

 2007/8/12 17:12Profile

 Re: PRE-TRIBBERS: Would You Fall Away if You Found Yourselves in the Trib Periods? ..

Great post Bro Rahman!

Can't study it too much just now, as it's gone midnight here and I'm not concentrating well, but just wanted to say thanks for this.

I remember someone speaking on the verse in Isaiah, "Watchman, what of the night? And the answer, "The morning is coming, but also the night".

The speaker commented that it would be wonderful to be proved wrong, and that the Rapture would come before the Tribulation after all. But the warning is there, even in Isaiah. The night comes before the morning. Even the Biblical method of counting days witnesses to it! Yes, the Morning IS coming, but take care that you do not fall away when the night comes first.

In Him


 2007/8/12 19:18

Joined: 2005/2/21
Posts: 417
Edmonton Alberta Cda.

 Re: PRE-TRIBBERS: Would You Fall Away if You Found Yourselves in the Trib Periods? ..

Pre-trib rapture is a doctrine that is not supported by scripture. The first of the raptured are the 144,000, 12,000 of each of the 12 tribes of Israel. The scriptural proof of this is found in this verse.

Rev 14:4 These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.

Firstfruits are just that, FIRST.

Blessings Greg

Edit: P.S. I know that messing with peoples favorite doctrine is not popular, but the truth is, and always be, what scripture says it is, in this case, the "Church" is not raptured first.


 2007/8/12 20:34Profile

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