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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Matthew 24 Watch

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Katy, all I can do is smile. If you could have only read my mind of "why" I posted that.
Anyway - moving on along --- I came to my belief that I now hold to, after having been Pre for years and then by just reading my Bible alone, many years ago, long before computers - came to what I believe now through and by Scripture Only.
I hadn't heard of Corrie's letter or the Origins of the Pre belief, or the ECF's quotes, etc. until a few years ago.
If you'd like me to be blunt about "why" I posted that "back on topic" post of Corrie and why I came on the tongues thread, though I didn't want to post on it prior to today, it was because I don't want to see you "gone".
Hang on to His Love Sis and have a Jesus filled night.

 2007/9/25 22:27


If you'd like me to be blunt about "why" I posted that "back on topic" post of Corrie and why I came on the tongues thread, though I didn't want to post on it prior to today, it was because I don't want to see you "gone".

He-Reigns, please don't use me for a reason for posting what you did. I do believe the subject matter has not changed at all, and to sugguest posting this will keep me from geting kicked off is rather odd.

We are talking about the persecution of the Saints, not only has this always been, but will continue to be....that is the point of the article.

The Bible clearly says we are not called to Wrath, also known as the Day of the Lord.

Christians do need to know the difference between God's Wrath and persecution. God's wrath is coming to un-belivers, not to His Children.

We even discussed in the OT Saints were persecuted and sawn usunder for their faith in Christ. So why mislead people by stating THE COMING PERSECUTION only, when persecution is a sign one is saved to begin with.

The point of the article is, that because of a faulty misconception about many pre-trib teachers we will escape persecution.....that has nothing to do with the doctrine of the Rapture, no matter where you place it.

It's only the Pre-trib teachers who have never suffered with Christ to begin with that could make such a statement to begin with....and it's also those who have never suffered(post-trib) in their walk with Christ who only see persecution as something of the future. Both have a faulty understanding our our life in Christ.

We will suffer with Christ no matter no matter what. Paul said in Philippians, not only do we believe the Gospel but we are called to suffer for the Gospel too.....If THIS is taught from the beginning.......the Rapture Doctrine regardless of where you place it, has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Do you know, many during WWII, because they thought they were going through the Great Tribulation, believing Hitler to be the anti-christ, lost faith completely because they believed the rapture would take place at that time. Much of what Corrie was writing about were to those Saints who lost faith. If left in the context of why she wrote what she did, at that time, we would not be using it as a doctrine to refute any rapture at anytime. Taken out of context, it is being used to disprove the pre-trib rapture or any rapture all together. Paul clearly says we will be Caught up together with christ in the clouds. Look in your strongs *caught* . What is the definition?

We do know, WWII was NOT the great tribulation in the first place, and if people KNEW the scriptures to begin with, they should have known that too.

There were other prophesies,that must take place before the Great Tribulation, that had not taken place at the time of WWII.

Paul says the Falling Away comes first. The falling away is those who run after false teachers and false prophets and deny the Diety of Jesus Christ, and the atonement through His Blood.
These are those who have a form of godlieness, but deny the power, from such turn away. 2 Timothy 3. Which my posting on teh Quakers and George Fox's "Inner Light" Doctrine does just that. also kept in context to this thread. If I get kicked off for stating that fact...then PRAISE GOD!!!

Keeping that in perspective, along with Jesus Words, "In the World you will have tribulation, but in me you will have peace", belong to all Saints at all time regardless of when they live.

We enter the Kingdom through much tribulation, was clearly taught from the beginning of the Church Age by all the Apostles.

Paul makes many referrences to their own persecutions and tribulations at their time that they were not to worry as though the Day of the Lord( Wrath), or the Day of Christ( Rapture) had come, because he clearly is telling them certain things must happen first. Because of their sufferings and persecutions and tribulations, these saints thought they had been left behind, as did those during WWII.

Love in Christ

 2007/9/26 6:32


Sis Katy, my post of Corrie was intended for "O"s thread. Sorry you found it odd.
I personally don't see the Tribulation as the Wrath. The Wrath is in The Vials.
I need to run for now. Have a Blessed day.

 2007/9/26 9:02


Concerning the Deity of Jesus Christ, anti-christ and end times which do apply to this thread.

The pre-eminent importance of the doctrine of the Deity of Jesus Christ in the Christian faith is shown by the fact that this is the test by which we are to distinguish between true and false prophets, between spirits which are of God and spirits which are not of God.

The Apostle John, after giving the warning, ‘Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world,’ adds these words: ‘Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God; every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof we have heard that it cometh, and now it is in the world already,’ 1 John 4:1-3.

Here we are plainly told that every one who acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and that every one who denies the Deity of Christ is antichrist.

Regardless of how eloquent the speaker may be, how pleasing or magnetic his personality, how widespread his in influence, or even how sincere his motives, the prophet or preacher or teacher who denies the Deity of Jesus Christ is branded in Scripture as a false prophet or preacher or teacher. To this same effect Paul says: ‘No man speaking in the Spirit of God saith, Jesus is anathema; and no man can say, Jesus is Lord, but in the Holy Spirit,’1 Cor. 12:3.

Paul is declaring that only by the spiritual insight which the Holy Spirit gives as He regenerates a soul can that soul KNOW teh truth of the Deity of Jesus Christ. No one recognizes Jesus Christ as Lord and as his Lord unless he has been born again. In otherwords, an unregenerate person does not KNOW within himself Christ In You, and recognize by this Born Again experience Jesus Christ as Lord And Savior.

The man who looks at Jesus only with his own unenlightened eyes sees in Him only a man, perhaps a great man with many lofty principles and ideals, yet a man who has claimed too much for Himself and who has committed blasphemy by calling himself the Son of God. But when the Holy Spirit comes into his life, renewing and enlightening him spiritually, he then sees himself a guilty, condemned sinner who merits nothing but God’s wrath and punishment. He is also given to see, by the eye of faith, that Jesus is the Son of God, that He lived on this earth, that He was crucified for the sins of His people, that He arose from the grave, and that He now reigns from heaven.

Never does an mortal man know the Lord Jesus Christ in a pesonal way, and never does he accept Him as his Lord, unless it is given him by the Holy Spirit.

Paul says that no person can acknowledge Jesus as Lord unless he has been enlightened by the Holy Spirit. Lord meand GOD, And, incidentally, in these words he also tells us that the person who DOES acknowledge Jesus Christ as LORD has been regenerated and is assured of his salvation.

 2007/9/26 10:41

Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752


Christians do need to know the difference between God's Wrath and persecution. God's wrath is coming to un-belivers, not to His Children.

I agree with you 100% on this statement. The believers that are here during the Great Trib will not suffer the Wrath of God, but they will be persecuted. Wonderful point. Many Christians do not realize this when talking about being persecuted in the end days, regardless of pre, mid or post beliefs.

In Chirst



 2007/9/26 15:06Profile

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