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 Conditional Security for Christians

Also consider this scripture which was written to Christians. The word "if" is a condition, which supports conditional security for Christians:

Ro 8:13 - For if you [Christians] live after the flesh, you [beloved] shall die: but if you [Christians] through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you [beloved] shall live.

This was a warning about death Paul gave to Christians, to the "beloved of God", a condition for life which Paul told Christians, to the "beloved of God":

Romans 1:7-8 To all that be in Rome, [b]beloved of God[/b], called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God [b]our Father,[/b] and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that [b]your faith[/b] is spoken of throughout the whole world.

So Paul told these Christians that if they sow to the flesh they will die, but if they meet the condition of mortifying the flesh they will live. Death was conditional and life was conditional, the former conditioned upon sowing to the flesh, the latter upon condition of mortifying the flesh.

 2007/8/8 15:09

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re: Conditional Security for Christians

Not a condition but rather a warning. Paul was not telling them that they could be damned, or that it was even possible for them to lose their salvation.

He was warning them. It is just as if I said, "if you play in the street you will get hit by a car."

It is a warning, not an assumption that now you will go and get hit by a car.

To follow your train of thought would make Paul out to be a rather confused man, and the Holy Spirit a contradictory speaker, for the rest of Romans 8 speaks of the inability of a Christian to lose their salvation.

Rom 8:28 And [b]we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.[/b]
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 [b]Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.[/b]
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 [b]Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.[/b]
Rom 8:34 [b]Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.[/b]
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

patrick heaviside

 2007/8/8 15:41Profile


Paul was not saying that they would sow to the flesh and therefore die. But Paul was warning them because they could choose to sow to the flesh and die.

Paul was not saying that they would lose their salvation, but simply that they could lose their salvation, that is, if they forsook the narrow road and started walking again on the broad road, if they choose not to continue in the faith and choose not to continue in the grace of God, if they choose to walk after the flesh instead of the Spirit.

There is no necessity of warning where there is no possibility of the outcome of that warning. We must distinguish between actuality and possibility, what a Christian could do and what a Christian would do. Paul was not saying a Christian would sow to the flesh and therefore die, but that a Christian could sow to the flesh and therefore die. It was a possibility, not an actuality, and that was the reason or the necessity of the warning in the first place.

Where there is no real possibility, there is no necessity of warning.

 2007/8/8 15:46

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


The danger is not of losing ones salvation, but of never obtaining it because one was not amongst those who persevered.

Those who persevere are the elect, and those professing Christ can make their "calling and election sure". Those who have worked out their salvation with "fear and trembling" can be confident that they will never fall away.

Salvation is conditional upon repentance, belief, and perseverance.

Repentance, belief, and perseverance are conditional upon election.

Election is conditional upon Sovereign Grace.

Therefore, if you can be sure you are elect, you can be sure that you will not fall away.

 2007/8/8 16:07Profile

Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


Lazurus179 espouses a position that gives no credence to the differences between the doctrine of the eternal security of the true believer and the doctrine of the assurance of salvation for those professing to be believers. Two very different doctrines that are not the same. Often those who oppose the doctrine of eternal security of the believer do so by arguing scripture that is really textual support for how a person who professes faith can be sure they actually have salvific faith and are in the elect.

 2007/8/8 16:21Profile


If the elect fall into adultery and murder (as David did) or actually deny the Lord (as Peter did) are they still saved while committing adultery and murder, are they still saved while they deny the Lord?

Specifically, what sins can the elect commit and still be eternally secure? What sins can the elect commit without storing up God's wrath, but can commit while still having the forgiveness of God?

 2007/8/8 16:29

Joined: 2007/7/16
Posts: 51


"And then shall I profess unto them, I NEVER knew you, depart fom me, ye that work iniquity."
- Jesus Christ (Matt 7:23)


 2007/8/8 16:50Profile


"And then shall I profess unto them, I NEVER knew you, depart fom me, ye that work iniquity."
- Jesus Christ (Matt 7:23)

No doubt, many will go to hell who never knew him. Those who were never saved never knew the Lord.

But what did Jesus say to the virgins who ran out of oil, whose lamps which once were bright were not out completely? He said, "I do not know you" (Matt 25:12)

To those who were never saved, they will hear "I never knew you"

To those who's lamps go out, they will hear "I do not know you"

 2007/8/8 16:55

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


Brother Patrick quoted:

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

According to Scripture, what defines one's life "that love God?"

Many begin with the incorruptible seed planted in them, not many continue on to become fruitful.
Rather they choose to not obey the word that was planted in them. The result is lawlessness.

It is true that those who love God are predestined to be conformed into the image of His Son.


In Christ

Jeff Marshalek

 2007/8/8 20:15Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707



""To those who were never saved, they will hear "I never knew you"

To those who's lamps go out, they will hear "I do not know you" ""

Those that are not saved.

"Lamps go out" Those that are not Christians, no piety, not life in Christ, just professing christians, not possessing Christians.

I don't know you as Christ Ones.

Not saved and then lost. Salvation is eternally in God's hands not mans. These were never called they just lived in the neighborhood and wanted to belong, but could not.

In Christ: Phillip


 2007/8/8 22:25Profile

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