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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Does the View of Progressive Sanctification Effectively Endorse the Carnal Mind Described in Rom 7

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proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: Josef83

Hi Josef83,

RE:Josef83 wrote //I dont belive romans 7 is talking about unregenrate men as the sinless perfectionsts teaches
There are several reasons for that.
1. verse 22 " For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being"
This is very impossible for a hater of God that has not a renewed heart.
Only a man who loves God and are his child can delight in his law//


Romans 7 is a first person narrative of a past tense event,
Romans 7 is a man under the Law not a regenerated man dead to the Law.

Paul as an unregenerate Jew very much did delight in the Law of God as does many unsaved religious men do (Acts ch 22 v 3 Paul says
" I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, (as ye all are this day")

In Phillippians ch 3 v 6 Paul says that as an unregenerate Jew that touching the righteousness which is in the law, he was blameless.

RE://1 Joh 1:8 "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
If anyone claim to be sinless he deceives himself and he is a liar!//


1 John ch 3
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother

RE://Rom 6:23 "Wages of sin is death"
Since all men die there is no one sinless.
Christ was the only one who ever was sinless but he gave his life freely.//

What is the context and point being articulated in Romans ch 6 ??

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid (strongest negative in the Greek Language). How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

the Man in Romans 7 is under the Law!!

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.



RE: //Greatings from a wicked vile and useless worm.//

We need to believe the Gospel that the wicked vile useless worm is dead and be freed from legalism and sin!!
For he that is dead is freed from sin







 2012/7/24 23:54Profile





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