| Poster | Thread |
| | Christianity: A Set of Rules?? | | I was asked this on a different board and I thought it would be good to discuss here:
Quote:
Do you agree that Christianity is not a set of rules, DO do's or Don't do's right?
Christianity in not just a set of rules of do's and dont's. But you also must acknowledge that Christianity has rules of "do's and don't". Christianity is not lawlessness. Christianity does has a law, the law of love.
Christianity is not just a set of rules, but within Christianity God has given us rules, because God cares about right and wrong, because God cares about His creation.
Though God knows what is good for us, and tells us what to do (live righteous) and what not to do (sin). Sin is harmful to God's creation, so He outlaws it, and punishes all of it.
But yes, Christianity is not just a set of rules of do's and dont's. God certainly gives us do's and dont's because God cares about right and wrong. But Christianity is a [b]love relationship[/b] with Jesus Christ.
Christianity, and even the law, are summed up in one word - [b]love[/b]! If we love God, we won't sin against Him. If we love our neighbor, we won't sin against our neighbor. Jesus said, "if you love me, keep my commandments." And John said, "this is how we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments."
It's all about love. When we love God and love our neighbor, that is true Christianity, and that fullfills the law.
And that was God's intention in creation to begin with. God wanted a universe of beings who were all voluntarily loving Him and voluntarily loving each other. But sin entered the world when man choose to be selfish. But Jesus came to restore God's fallen creation, to get back to God's original purpose and intention, which was to have a universe of beings who all voluntarily choose to love Him and love each other.
Our focus needs to be loving God and neighbor. Our focus, or primary aim, is not merely to keep the law, but our focus, our emphasis, needs to be to love God and love our neighbor. And thereby we do keep the law - the law of love. |
|  2007/8/1 8:07 | |
| | Re: Christianity: A Set of Rules?? | | I think if someone is maintaining a close relationship with the Savior, and the fruits of the Spirit (this is different from the gifts!) are being lived out in their life... then there is no need for a list of rules because you'll already be doing what pleases God. Thats where freedom is!
There is a difference between trying to live by a set of rules, and just doing it naturally. One way you're focussed on the list, and the other your focussed on God.
Krispy |
| | 2007/8/1 9:11 | | sojourner7
Member
Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE
| | Re: Christianity: A Set of Rules?? | | The Ten Commandments is a set of rules;
but the law was not enough to make a
man just with God. We could follow all
the rules, and still miss what God requires
of us. Without grace, we cannot keep the
righteous standard of God. So God's Son
taught that devotion to God and love for
your neighbor was the essence of the law.
God promised that He would put a new heart
and a new Spirit within us, one that desires
to please Him and keep His Word. He made
a new covenant of grace in Christ to enable
us to be justified and made righteous in Him.
_________________
Martin G. Smith
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| | 2007/8/1 19:33 | Profile | Christinyou
Member
Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.
| | Re: | | Christianity is a Person. Not rules, if rules works could save us, that is the Law, then Christ died in vain. That Person is Christ in you the hope of glory. A real Person, The Word Himself, who is God also. What is Christianity? It is a new life in Christ Jesus, and our life is hid with Christ in God. What are we to call God now? Father, you cannot be a Father without placing the Seed of Himself, which is Christ, the same Seed that was in Mary, which produced a Person, all Man and all God. That is our destiny, not a god but as God by birth, by the Seed that is placed in us and we are birthed a new creation, a Christ-One, a son, headed for the Father's House. A Heavenly family, not an earthly family.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
This Seed that remains in us is the Sperma of God.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
The Seed is Christ, He cannot sin. Our Spirit is Perfect, our flesh has an advocate for forgiveness, our soul is learning this by the Perfect Teacher the Holy Spirit, spoken of 7 times as Teacher in John 14,15,16.
Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Who has been promised all the earth? Not the Heavenly Family, we are to rule over it, not possess it, until a new heaven and a new earth will come. There is no scripture for the new heaven and new earth, we will just have to wait and see from the Heavenly House of our Father.
In Christ: Phillip
_________________
Phillip
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| | 2007/8/1 21:54 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Christianity is all about Jesus, the Jesus who saves us from all sin!! Jesus didn't save us to be lawless! [b]Lawlessness is not Christianity![/b]
Jesus took us from darkness to light, from disobedience to obedience, from being children of the devil to children of God, from being lawless to lawful, from loving sin to loving God and neighbor, etc.
Here is a chart that lists a lot of the characteristics of the unconverted in contrast to the characteristics of the converted:
http://www.openairoutreach.com/gallery/adobe/ConversionCharacteristics3?full=1 |
| | 2007/8/3 1:32 | |
| | Re: | | This was from a different board, on this same topic, I thought I'd share here:
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Quote:
I am not aware of "rules" that all Christians must follow.
Joh 14:15 - If ye love me, [b]keep my commandments[/b].
Joh 15:10 - If ye [b]keep my commandments[/b], ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Jo 2:3 - And hereby we do know that we know him, [b]if we keep his commandments. [/b]
1Jo 2:4 - He that saith, I know him, and [b]keepeth not his commandments[/b], is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jo 3:22 - And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because [b]we keep his commandments[/b], and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jo 3:24 - And he that [b]keepeth his commandments[/b] dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1Jo 5:2 - By this we know that we love the children of God, when we [b]love God, and keep his commandments[/b].
1Jo 5:3 - For this is the love of God, that we [b]keep his commandments[/b]: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jo 1:6 - And this is love, that we [b]walk after his commandments[/b]. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it
Quote:
Without spending to much time or effort can you define what you mean by rules and give some examples with reference to supporting scriptures? Please don't put a lot of effort into it though. I don't want to debate you, I'm just interested in conversing with you about the subject.
The law that Christians are under obligation to obey is the "Law of Love". Obviously, love excludes lying, stealing, adultery, murder, rape, incest, etc. Christians are to conduct themselves lawfully. Christianity is not lawlessness! God still cares about right and wrong, God doesn't want us going around hurting each other (sin) but rather helping each other (love).
[b]Love is law, and this excludes hurting each other (sinning against each other).[/b]
[u]And this is not optional:[/u]
Mt 19:19 - Thou shalt love
Mt 22:37 - Thou shalt love
Mt 22:39 - Thou shalt love
Mr 12:30 - thou shalt love
Mr 12:31 - Thou shalt love
Lu 10:27 - Thou shalt love
Ro 13:9 - Thou shalt love
Ga 5:14 - For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; [b]Thou shalt love[/b] thy neighbour as thyself.
Jas 2:8 - If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, [b]Thou shalt love[/b] thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Quote:
Wouldn't a good example of a "rule" that Christians are supposed to follow be something like, "love your neighbor" and "love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength"?
Amen brother!
Quote:
Beyond that, isn't safe to say that things like "Do not murder" still apply to Christians?
Sin is still wrong, good is still right! Christians are not to go around sinning against people, living selfishly, hurting one another. We are supposed to love God and love neighbor, and thereby we fullfill all of the law by loving. Love excludes lying, stealing, adultery, murder, rape, incest, and all other forms of selfishness (sinfulness).
Quote:
there are rules that Christians are expected to abide by.
Amen brother! This should be obvious!
If this is not true, then antinomianism is true and lawlessness reigns!
God's ideal never was, nor is, a lawless world with everone sinning against each other, hurting one another! That is not God nor God's will!
God wants us to obey Him from the heart. And we can trust that His commands are good and right. A good parent only tells a child to do what is good, and forbids what is bad. A parent tells a child to do what is good and forbids what is harmful.
Likewise with God, we can trust that what He commands is good and should always be chosen, and what He forbids is evil and harmful and should never be chosen. |
| | 2007/8/3 2:05 | |
| | Re: | | Lazarus... just in case you missed my point, I dont think anyone here would promote lawlessness. We are to obey Jesus' commandments... and if we truly are saved and truly love Him, we will obey His commands automatically. This will happen without having to post a list of rules on the wall of the church.
Krispy |
| | 2007/8/3 7:30 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Lazarus... just in case you missed my point, I dont think anyone here would promote lawlessness. We are to obey Jesus' commandments... and if we truly are saved and truly love Him, we will obey His commands automatically.
Amen! I totally agree. Love = obedience because love is obedience.
Quote:
This will happen without having to post a list of rules on the wall of the church.
Sometimes Christians need to be encouraged and affirmed, which is why I think the Apostle wrote 1John.
We could say, "Well John, I already know this and I'm already doing that. I'm a Christian. You don't need to tell me this, you didn't need to write this Epistle and I didn't need to read it." But then again, even the obedient need encouragement and affirmation in their obedience.
But the point is not weather or not we should put the Ten Commandments on our Church walls, or weather or not Christians need to read 1John, the whole point is that Christianity does have laws - the two great commandments, also known as The Law of Love. And though Christians, who are born again and have a new heart, automaticly walk in love for God and neighbor, Peter and John still nevertheless wrote Epistles reminding, encouraging, and affirming the Church in this love.
The original point was that Christianity does not [i]merely consist[/i] in "do this and don't do that" but that Christianity nevertheless still has "do's and don't do's"; that God still cares about right and wrong and Christianity is not a religion of lawlessness.
Some jump out of the oven of [b]legalism[/b] and fall into the frying pan of [b]lawlessness[/b]. One if mere [i]outward obedience[/i], the other is [i]total disobedience[/i]. But what God wants and requires of us is [i]heart-obedience[/i]. |
| | 2007/8/3 7:54 | | running2win
Member
Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA
| | Re: | | Laz,
I understand and agree with what you're saying but I personally prefer to avoid the word law in it all, mainly because it has this "have to" ring to it. I think Krispy hit it right on with his first post there. True christianity seeks God's highest level of satisfaction and happiness taking no thought for itself. So thus true christians fulfill the law of love without even taking thought of it. So in a certain sense it's not "do's and don't's" but rather the "requirements" are a part of the very character of the true christian flowing naturally from him without regard to what he must do and not do. I think that the person that sees christianity as do's and don't's has no concept of what true christianity is. Oh that there were more true christians in this our day and age. This lack of true christianity I believe is the reason that this website exists and why God's people are longing for genuine revival.
God, be glorified in our land in this generation!
_________________
Jeff Mollman
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| | 2007/8/3 8:41 | Profile |
| | Re: | | I agree that the word "law" and "commandments" have a ring to it, a very negative one. I think some people hate the word "law" more then they hate the word "hell-fire".
Yet the scriptures do speak of the Law of Love and the Commandments of Christ, and also obviously of "hell-fire".
But I totally agree that anyone who see's Christianity as [i]merely[/i] consisting in doing right and avoiding wrong is totally missing the very essense of Christianity - a love relationship with Jesus Christ.
But likewise, anyone who does not see Christianity as having anything to do with avoiding wrong and doing right is also missing the core of Christianity - loving God and loving neighbor.
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| | 2007/8/3 8:57 | |
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