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LiveforGod
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 God's Message to Woman

When I created the heavens and the earth, I spoke them into being. When I created man, I formed him and breathed life into his nostrils. But you, woman, I fashioned after I breathed the breath of life into man because your nostrils are too delicate. I allowed a deep sleep to come over him so I could patiently and perfectly fashion you.

Man was put to sleep so that he could not interfere with the creativity. From one bone I fashioned you. I chose the bone that protects man's life. I chose the rib, which protects his heart and lungs and supports him, as you are meant to do.

Around this one bone I shaped you. I modeled you. I created you perfectly and beautifully. Your characteristics are as the rib, strong yet delicate and fragile. You provide protection for the most delicate organ in man, his heart. His heart is the center of his being; his lungs hold the breath of life. The rib cage will allow itself to be broken before it will allow damage to the heart.

Support man as the rib cage supports the body. You were not taken from his feet, to be under him, nor were you taken from his head, to be above him. You were taken from his side, to stand beside him and be held close to his side. You are my perfect angel. You are my beautiful little girl. You have grown to be a splendid woman of excellence, and my eyes fill when I see the virtue in your heart. Your eyes -- don't change them. Your lips -- how lovely when they part in prayer. Your nose so perfect in form, your hands so gentle to touch.

I've caressed your face in your deepest sleep; I've held your heart close to mine. Of all that lives and breathes, you are the most like me.

Adam walked with me in the cool of the day and yet he was lonely. He could not see me or touch me. He could only feel me. So everything I wanted Adam to share and experience with me, I fashioned in you: my holiness, my strength, my purity, my love, my protection and support.

You are special because you are the extension of me. Man represents my image -- woman, my emotions. Together, you represent the totality of God.

So man -- "treat woman well. Love her, respect her, for she is fragile". In hurting her, you hurt me. What you do to her, you do to me. In crushing her, you only damage your own heart, the heart of your Father and the heart of her Father. Woman, support man. In humility, show him the power of emotion I have given you. In gentle quietness show your strength. In love, show him that you are the rib that protects his inner self.


_________________
Samuel

 2007/7/28 15:52Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re: Whose Message to women?

Quote:
He could not see me or touch me. He could only feel me. So everything I wanted Adam to share and experience with me, I fashioned in you: my holiness, my strength, my purity, my love, my protection and support.



I have a hard time accepting this message from the heart of God. This smacks of pure sentimentalism, generic stuff you can find in the Christian book section at Wal-Mart.

Quote:
Man represents my image -- woman, my emotions.



First, only a person who doesn't know or fear God would [i]dare[/i] speak as God Himself in the First Person, and, what's more, speak such sensual, conjectural and unscriptural breathings as this. Brother, there is not a hint of a feminine-emotional concept of God in all of scripture; such a thought is blasphemous. In the Bible, and the Old Testament in particular, women often got their husbands into deep trouble when they acted on emotion. Women (wives) are rightly considered by God to be the weaker vessels, and men (husbands) are to respect them as such and love them as Christ loves the church. They are not containers of God's holiness by default, and they are not the guardians of men's hearts. For both men and women, husband and wife, all life and protection and wisdom and counsel and assurance is found in Christ only and nothing at all is found outside of Christ.

Quote:
In humility, show him the power of emotion I have given you. In gentle quietness show your strength. In love, show him that you are the rib that protects his inner self.



[i]The rib that protects his inner self?[/i] Brother, I realise you posted this with good intentions, but it was not God who birthed these musings. This is a textbook example of religious sentimentality, of a familiar spirit that actually strives to bring God's heart down to a human [i]philo/eros[/i] level. Such dangerous musings are very common in today's popular Christian industry, and many of their gleanings can actually be traced to eastern philiosophy. There's a famous book called [i]The Prophet[/i] written in the same soft, lovingly eloquent and philosophical style, telling of an ancient itinerant "prophet" who arrives on a boat to share his wisdom with a crowd of people in Persia or whatever. When he's done "enlightening" them, he gets back on his boat and sails away.

But this prophet was not sent by the God of Israel, as this article. I write this reply with tender love! Try to be more careful, test the spirits.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/7/28 17:29Profile









 Re:

Allegory has been written by Lewis, Bunyan and many other Christians. We can pick those to pieces also I suppose or use them to show Christians the Love of God and their purpose as Christians.

Personally, this spoke to me greatly today, that I must before GOD "protect my husband's heart" and be "quieter when doing that" and that if I am "more tender" than I can use my womanhood to a greater degree to win hardened hearts to Christ.
That I need not be a macho-woman to be a Deborah.

God does place Himself in Scripture in a female role on some occasions. And in the original language, the Holy Spirit is in the feminine.
Does that make GOD feminine or just having a nature that typifies both sides of human natures.
The "nurturing side" and the "side of strength".

Quote:
there is not a hint of a feminine-emotional concept of God in all of scripture, such a thought is blaspehmous.



Just for one from the N.T. that is also twice in the Old - Luk 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

As far as the man & woman fulfilling the symbol of Christ and His Church which I very much see in this, I know you know these verses.

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 [b]This is a great Mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.[/b]
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.


For each paragraph you wrote Paul, Scriptures were coming to my mind.

Quote:
First, only a person who doesn't know or fear God would dare speak as God Himself in the First Person, and, what's more, speak such sensual, conjecturized and unscriptural breathings as this.



I think many prophets and authors of alegory have.

Quote:
I post this reply with tender love!




You've basically accused him of Kaballah teachings.

Just wondering your take on The Song of Solomon or if you've ever exegeted it.

 2007/7/28 18:18
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, [b]as[/b] a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!



Hi Annie, Jesus was using a hen [b]as[/b] an example here to show how eager He was to protect and care for and provide sanctuary for those people who rejected Him. He used a protective hen as an example to provide a vivid illustration that simple people, all people, peasants, farmers, scribes could align with. But I don't see an undertone of feminism here, that God's emotions are effeminate because Christ used a female chicken to illustrate a point. Most mothers are very protective, but I know some very protective fathers too, and Jesus is clear that God is our Father, not our mother.

Quote:
You've basically accused him of Kaballah teachings.



I've done nothing of the sort. You've accused me of accusing him; I only critiqued his post because I found it unscriptural and even blasphemous in certain points. I [i]would[/i] be surprised that you're defending it, but then I remember how you were enlightened by the other erroneous thread that taught Jesus never carried His cross. Annie, I know this sounds spiteful, and I wish you could see my face. I did not say that to be spiteful and malicious. I am not picking a fight with you, but I must speak my heart all the same, for this a public forum and people need to know the truth, error should be exposed. I pray these words of mine be seasoned sufficiently by God, and not fall to the ground. If I am wrong on any points here, I would expect those who loved me to do the same. Correct me! I readily welcome the Priscillas and Aquillas to teach me truth.

Quote:
Allegory has been written by Lewis, Bunyan and many other Christians.



I have no problem with allegory as long as it is scriptural. I have absolutely no problem with Pilgrim's Progress, and Song of Solomen, of course, is scripture in itself. I have a problem with these modern, popular Christian writers who pour out mellifluous musings that never seem to leave the earth, that keep people carnally-minded, and twist and isolate scripture and insert humanism and sentimentalize Biblical concepts to the point where they can churn out a nice piece of harmless, gooey drivel that charms the soul.

Quote:
Just wondering your take on The Song of Solomon or if you've ever exegeted it.



No, sister, I haven't. The Puritan Thomas Watson wrote a great paper on it, though. [i]The Mystical Union Between Christ and His Saints.[/i] I know that erroneous interpretations of this book have resulted in locked threads here on SI.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/7/28 18:58Profile









 Re:

Hi Paul, I think first we should get the accusations out of the way.

Quote:
I've done nothing of the sort. You've accused me of accusing him; I only critiqued his post because I found it unscriptural and even blasphemous.



This is why I mentioned personal accusations.

Quote:
First, only a person who doesn't know or fear God would dare speak as God Himself in the First Person, and, what's more, speak such sensual, conjectural and unscriptural breathings as this. Brother, there is not a hint of a feminine-emotional concept of God in all of scripture; such a thought is blasphemous.



Who is the person you are referring to here above if it is not the author of this piece ?
You see ... that was a tough call at this member.

About the Holy Spirit ... I'll just give one verse I referred to with a definition and a link that quotes the likes of Charles Stanley in some articles, so you don't think they're off the wall too awfully much.

Psa 51:11 Cast7993 me not408 away from thy presence;4480, 6440 and take3947 not408 thy holy6944 spirit[b]7307[/b] from4480 me.

H7307
רוּח
rûach
BDB Definition:
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1b1) of heaven
1b2) quarter (of wind), side
1b3) breath of air
1b4) air, gas
1b5) vain, empty thing
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1c7) prophetic spirit
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God’s spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character
1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
1g4) as endowing men with various gifts
1g5) as energy of life
1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
1g7) never referred to as a depersonalized force
[b]Part of Speech: noun feminine[/b]

Not into arguing neither Paul. Just thought you were being a bit critical saying that God never using feminine illustrations, such as Pro. 8 and such.

Anyhow, easier to post a link or two.
Just posting the second one, because the part about "walking in the Spirit" came up elsewhere today and I thought this second article did a great job of it and I prefer for men to talk together - whenever possible.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-gender.html


http://www.gotquestions.org/Spirit-walk.html


I tried to single out what bothered you about this post of his. I think I covered it with these two posts now, but maybe there is more yet that you haven't posted that you're still having problems with, that we can look into further later tonite. Or gladly if someone else wanted to.

But in the long haul, I'm feeling that we're all entitled to our opinions and unless it's blatant heresy that is known by the "fruit" it produces in the hearts of those who it is directed at, I think this one's up to the discretion and opinion of the reader and I needn't force you to agree with it or like it, being allegory and all.

Peace.
Annie


Edited to answer: Why I put the "Hebrew" in and not the Greek.

 2007/7/28 19:18
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: God's Message to Woman

Quote:
When I ...



This is speaking in first person singular, which would make you god, speaking as God and expressing God's thoughts.

That in itself should be enough to cause a great pause and an even greater concern. To induce your personality into or on to His ... I am sorry, but God does not speak in this fashion nor with this intimation. Paul is correct here. Please reconsider.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/7/28 19:24Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Just thought you were being a bit critical saying that God never using feminine illustrations, such as Pro. 8 and such.



Who said anything about illustrations? I said a feminine "concept" of God. I know Jesus used illustrations about the woman sweeping for the coin, and such. This is not the point, Annie.

I don't know why you went through the trouble to post all the Greek. The orginal post spoke about God [i]putting His holiness in the woman, and His emotions[/i] because He couldn't put them in the man. Allegory or not, such is wrong, it is error. It should be exposed, and if I didn't do it, someone else probably would have. Why are you fighting this?

Quote:
I'm feeling that we're all entitled to our [b]opinions[/b] and [i]unless it's blatant heresy[/i] that is known by the "fruit" it produces in the hearts of those who it is directed at, [b]I think this one's up to the discretion and opinion of the reader[/b] and I needn't force you to agree with it or like it, being allegory and all.



Oh, sister, look what you're saying. There can be no opinions when truth is violated, no matter how deep the article spoke to you. Truth is truth, and error is error.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/7/28 19:28Profile









 Re:

Brother Paul, I read your post again and I have to say that sometimes we all can be a bit too hard on each other. Picking at every word and putting motives behind why people post some things.
Yesterday on a thread, that had me very emotional and in a sad way for seeing some folks getting judged severely ..... when one brother brought up coffee and donuts, that was the first time I was able to laugh all day and it eased my tension for that moment, and you judged me severely for mimicking that brother's laugh.
I meant no one any harm on that thread and you could look at all those pages to see that.
I was asking that we just pray for folks more rather than have maybe 5 or more men jumping one.

We can both be wrong brother. I don't go around looking for where you are wrong in each post and I know we don't agree on the popular topics on the Scripture threads, I normally only come on if I come back to a harmless brother's posting and see him ribbed and then get ribbed myself for my reaction to the ribbing. That's the norm and you can check that out. I'm not Calvinist, but I won't get to fighting about that neither and appreciate the divide-bridgers that are on here enourmously.

Hope we can see more of that bridging of divides here without the accusatory tones also.

With His Love & Prayer.
Annie

 2007/7/28 19:38
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Personal

Quote:
I think first we should get the accusations out of the way.



Yes, we should. Do not make them, insinuate them or turn them into ones when they are not explicit. Stick to the words written and do not make it personal when it is not. This has been a great cause of many of the problems here of late.

Leave the moderating to the moderators.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/7/28 19:46Profile
LiveforGod
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 Re: God's Message to Woman

Hello. :-)

Wow,WOw,Wow, I didn't think that so much of an argument would arise in this, but I guess I was wrong. You guys missed the whole point. The point was this:

Quote:
So man -- "treat woman well. Love her, respect her, for she is fragile". In hurting her, you hurt me. What you do to her, you do to me. In crushing her, you only damage your own heart, the heart of your Father and the heart of her Father. Woman, support man. In humility, show him the power of emotion I have given you. In gentle quietness show your strength. In love, show him that you are the rib that protects his inner self.


Yes, there are some things I didn't like nither but if you look at it trying to get somthing Good out off it, you will.
The Bible teaches that in 1 Thessalonians 5:21 :Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Get out of this what is good, the rest just disregard it.


_________________
Samuel

 2007/7/28 19:55Profile





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