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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Using instrumental music in worship?

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tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: Using instrumental music in worship?

Excellent post Greg. I love Church history. These quotes are most enlightening in many ways. Thank you for this information.


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TJ

 2007/7/27 0:21Profile
jordanamo
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 397


 Re: Using instrumental music in worship?

That is one long list... much of it was a bit too repetitious, I think you could've easily taken out many of those to make it much more readable.

I prefer the voice to other instruments during worship. I do enjoy and respect most instruments, but during times of praise and worship, particularly communally, for me they take away more than they give. It depends on how they are used (i.e. how loud), but for the most part it does seem to be more of a personal preference issue than anything serious.

Jordan

 2007/7/27 0:57Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:
Many times singing is of great assistance in God's work. Sometimes, though, it cannot help but be a soulical activity. A great number of people enjoy visiting certain church groups because the music there is superb. Some groups spend over a million dollars merely to install a pipe organ. We have heard people say that when they go to such places, the moment they hear the sound of the organ and the voice of singing their spirits are immediately released to God's presence. Indeed, such a thing does happen. But are they really being brought to the presence of God? Can people's spirits be released and drawn closer to God by a little attraction such as this? Is this God's way?


http://saddleback.com/flash/venues.html

It is very obviously that saddleback have missed one letter in their url, instead of fl[b]a[/b]sh should be fl[b]e[/b]sh.

 2007/7/27 1:27Profile
freedbyjc
Member



Joined: 2004/7/29
Posts: 204
Jacksonville. Florida

 Re:

The real question being avoided is not whether Christ is glorifed and God is honored in the use of instruments...the true issue is the condition of the hearts of the leaders/worshippers.

This too IMHO is the issue with tongues- It falls the personal relationship they have with our Living Christ and their experiences of that most precious worship. eg Do you believe tongues/instruments a gift or a curse? Do you believe they are of God? These issues have all been dissected and talked to death in previous posts. Both issues fall to our personal experience and, though our studies of The Word, our personal feelings of what the presence of God is. We are all working out our salvation with fear and trembling ...again from Philippians:

Quote:

Imitating Christ's Humility
1If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. 3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. 4Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature[a] God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Shining as Stars
12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
14Do everything without complaining or arguing, 15so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe 16as you hold out the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing. 17But even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and service coming from your faith, I am glad and rejoice with all of you. 18So you too should be glad and rejoice with me.



Again my point is that the heart of the worshipper is the only thing that matters when it comes to worship. Just because someones words against a specific [b]practice[/b] affects us to either enrage or encourage us as it touches our deep personal feelings on the issue as it relates to our personal relationship with Christ.

I am a lead worshipper...I have sat in a music hall where a pipe organ is playing and been in the immediate Holy Presence of God; I have felt in the persence of God while worshipping/listening to CCM, Southern Gospel, alternative, rock and instrumental music and during times of natural silence. ALL because my heart is ever seeking that sweet repose of His love and Glory and the music that surrounds me unlocks my heart to the Love that is God and causes me to worship Him.

We are all free to make our personal choices- this too is the love of God - our free will. In a public setting listen not with your ears but with your hearts...join those worshipping around you...if you are by yourself then change the channel and find that wich allows you to come and remain in his presence every minute of the day... but understand that there are those around you do prefer different worship/music styles while singing/playing this music and let them ...they are seeking God.

It deeply greives me to see 'Christian' people yanking our 'favorite flogging' words [human quotes or scripture used for beating others] out of context and-as a beloved teacher used to say -bloodly and dangling- to make their points and further their affectation of wisdom.

“In essentials (doctrine) unity, in non-essentials (opinions) liberty, in all things charity.” - Rupertus Meldenius (Peter Meiderlin, the Lutheran priest) 1626

In 1809 Thomas Campbell reworded this statement by saying, [b][i]“We will speak where the Bible speaks, and we will remain silent where the Bible is silent.”[/b][/i]


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bill schnippert

 2007/7/27 7:09Profile









 Re:

Quote:

freedbyjc wrote:
The real question being avoided is not whether Christ is glorifed and God is honored in the use of instruments...the true issue is the condition of the hearts of the leaders/worshippers...

Amen! That's so true!

I read the original post and am still puzzled at some of the quotes. Why should the voice be more worshipful than the instrument? Or the other way around?

And how on earth could Beza say:
Quote:
BEZA "If the apostle justly prohibits the use of unknown tongues in the church, much less would he have tolerated these artificial musical performances which are addressed to the ear alone, and seldom strike the understanding even of the performers themselves." (Theodore Beza, scholar of Geneva, Girardeau's Instrumental Music, p. 166)

? Where did Paul prohibit the use of unknown tongues, in or out of church????

And Calvin seems to have had the same strange idea, together with more than a hint of anti-semitism (he's not the only one). Some of these writers seem to despise the Jewish style of worship completely and refuse to use instruments merely because the Jews used them! Or in another quote because these instruments were used in pagan worship.

Quote:
CALVIN "Musical instruments in celebrating the praises of God would be no more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting of lamps, and the restoration of the other shadows of the law. The Papists therefore, have foolishly borrowed, this, as well as many other things, from the Jews. Men who are fond of outward pomp may delight in that noise; but the simplicity which God recommends to us by the apostles is far more pleasing to him. Paul allows us to bless God in the public assembly of the saints, only in a known tongue (I Cor. 14:16) What shall we then say of chanting, which fills the ears with nothing but an empty sound?" (John Calvin, Commentary on Psalms 33)



Since when is the use of instruments in [i][u]true[/u][/i] worship less spiritual than using the human voice?

Quote:
CATHOLIC "Although Josephus tells of the wonderful effects produced in the Temple by the use of instruments, the first Christians were of [u]too spiritual a fibre to substitute lifeless instruments for or to use them to accompany the human voice[/u]. Clement of Alexandria severely condemns the use of instruments even at Christian banquets. St. Chrysostum sharply contrasts the customs of the Christians when they had full freedom with those of the Jews of the Old Testament." (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 10, pg. 648-652.)

Is he saying its legalistic and Old Covenant to use musical instruments?

This whole thing seems strange to me. We can use our voice for good or evil, to worship God or to exalt self and pander to the flesh. We can also use instruments for good or evil, to worship God or to exalt self and pander to the flesh.

What's the difference? :-?


Jeannette

 2007/7/28 18:03





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