Why did you leave out verse 10Eph 2:1010 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.KJVRom 8:1-58:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.KJV
Nile, here is what you wrote in your original post;
So, a man seeking to be justified by faith and works, will argue this at the judgment: "God, I admit to having once been a rebellious and wicked sinner. However, I repented of my sins and obeyed You the remainder of my life.
Why would I boast in my obedience? A servant does what he is told and expects no reward. My forgiveness comes from God alone and not from myself. I have nothing to boast of.
This living faith that is required to be saved, what does it believe?
_________________Ron Halverson
Perfect Obedience is the requirement for a man to approach God. It always has been, and always will be.Now from whence comes this perfect obedience?If you say "man must..", then you bypass the life of complete obedience of Christ, which is imputed to our account. It must be, or we have no hope of salvation.Consider these verses-Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believethGal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: [b]for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.[/b] Gal 3:22 [b]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe[/b]We need a perfect righteousness in place for us to come to God, not just when we die, but every moment of every day. If Christ is not that righteousness that is ever before God, then what hope do I have in coming to God? How could Paul say in Hebrews, "come boldly to throne of grace, to obtain mercy in time of need" if we had to come by our own merit?Much of this argument is based either upon a faulty conception of what God requires to come to Him, or a misunderstanding of Christ's work for us. I by no means have mastered this, but this is a huge issue if we are to walk with our God, and bring glory to Him.
_________________patrick heaviside
roaringlamb wrote:Perfect Obedience is the requirement for a man to approach God. It always has been, and always will be.
Now from whence comes this perfect obedience?If you say "man must..", then you bypass the life of complete obedience of Christ, which is imputed to our account. It must be, or we have no hope of salvation.
Consider these verses-Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believethGal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: [b]for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.[/b] Gal 3:22 [b]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe[/b]
We need a perfect righteousness in place for us to come to God, not just when we die, but every moment of every day.
If Christ is not that righteousness that is ever before God, then what hope do I have in coming to God?
How could Paul say in Hebrews, "come boldly to throne of grace, to obtain mercy in time of need" if we had to come by our own merit?
Much of this argument is based either upon a faulty conception of what God requires to come to Him, or a misunderstanding of Christ's work for us. I by no means have mastered this, but this is a huge issue if we are to walk with our God, and bring glory to Him.
WE are justified by faith in Christ Jesus, a sacrificial gift from God for our suffering and obedience . We have received many spiritual gifts from God after we are justified and two of these gifts are love and charity, they do the works. We have been warned not to hide our treasures in the ground. Some dont seem to put to much stock in heavenly treasures because of a false sense of security from self righteousness. Eddie
_________________Eddie
[b]DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE GROUND AND CONDITIONS[/b][b]Question[/b] Are sinners condemned because of God's wrath or because of their sin?[b]Answer:[/b] Sinners are condemned by God's wrath, because of their sin.The ground of condemnation is God's justice (wrath) but the condition of condemnation is man's sin.Now consider:[b]Question[/b] Are saints saved because of God's grace or because of their repentance and faith?[b]Answer[/b] Saints are saved by God's grace (made possible by the atonement) upon condition of their repentance and faith, and finally upon condition of their perseverence to the end.So I hope that helps to see the proper distinction between the [b]ground[/b] of justification and the [b]conditions[/b] of justification.Also see "Lecture on Justification" by Charles G. Finney in his Systematic Theology.
rowdy2 wrote:WE are justified by faith in Christ Jesus, a sacrificial gift from God for our suffering and obedience . We have received many spiritual gifts from God after we are justified and two of these gifts are love and charity, they do the works. We have been warned not to hide our treasures in the ground. Some dont seem to put to much stock in heavenly treasures because of a false sense of security from self righteousness. Eddie
Lazarus1719 wrote:[b]DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE GROUND AND CONDITIONS[/b][b]Question[/b] Are sinners condemned because of God's wrath or because of their sin?[b]Answer:[/b] Sinners are condemned by God's wrath, because of their sin.
God's wrath is against sin... ...His Holiness will not permit it in His presence.
_________________Jeff Mollman
We ourselves [i]actually[/i] need to be made holy through Jesus Christ, by obeying the Spirit. If we ourselves are not [i]actually[/i] holy, we will not go to Heaven.There is no mystical covering for unrepentant sins. There is no "righteousness" that blinds God so that He cannot see our sin. God sees them alright. He said to the Churches in Revelations, "I see your works...repent". He did not say, "I see the righteousness of Christ."True imputed righteousness is the forgiveness of repented sins. There is no imputed righteousness for "past, present, and future sins" because only repented sins are forgivable. Having a imputed righteousness covering, while yourself actually being unrighteous, is a delusion. If we do not cease from evil in this life, if we do not go and sin no more in this life, the grave will not be our Savior, death will not give us new hearts. We need to actually be righteous in this life in order to be with God here and hereafter.1Jo 2:29 - If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that [b]doeth righteousness[/b] is born of him. 1Jo 3:7 - Little children, [b][u]let no man deceive you[/u]: he that [u]doeth righteousness[/u] is righteous, [/b]even as he is righteous. Romans 4 says that it is our own faith, (faith includes repenting and believing) which is imputed to us for righteousness. Our own faith God considers as righteousness.