SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Christian Perfection

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Christian Perfection

Here are some of my thoughts on perfection:

I don't think we can ever be absolutely perfect. We have finite minds and are therefore subjected to making many unintentional mistakes.

But I do believe we can have a perfect intention, or what the bible calls a "perfect heart", a "pure heart", or a "new heart", which is basicly when we love God and love people, and have a sincere and genuine heart for the well-being of all.

I've read a lot of Christian writings on perfection, like Finney - Mahan - Wesley - Fletcher - Pratney - Olson, and they all seem to be saying the same thing, that only a perfect intention, a perfect heart, is attainable in this life and is required of us. It is what the bible refers to as being perfected in love, when a person has a pure intention, and is therefore blameless and faultless.

 2007/7/22 3:45
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re: Christian Perfection

I'd agree: we can perfect in heart, but not perfect in every way.

This got me to thinking - was Jesus perfect in every way by this standard?
I ask because of the following verse:

Luke 2:52
And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Now, this is a very heavy question, and please no one answer unless you are confident in your answer:
Did Jesus ever make unintentional mistakes?

Nile


_________________
Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/7/22 8:09Profile









 Re:

I would go as far as to say that baby Jesus [i]may have[/i] fallen a few times when learning to walk instead of crawl. He was a man, and at that point a baby, as the scripture says "growing in wisdom". As a baby, he may not have had perfect balance, and learning to walk may not have been intuitive, so he may have tripped over his own feet or something when learning to walk.

Luke 2:52 - And Jesus increased in wisdom

So I would go as far as to say he [i]may have[/i] fallen a few times as a baby when learning to walk on his baby feet instead of crawl on His stomach. But I don't know if I would go futher then that. Maybe he stubbed his toe as an adult, but I doubt it, he could walk on water, he probably never stubbed his toe. And He probably never hit His thumb with a hammer when working as a carpenter.

:-D

But I don't know really. Maybe He went from crawling to walking without any mistakes...

Quote:
I'd agree: we can perfect in heart, but not perfect in every way.



Amen. In this life, we will never be intellectually perfect in our minds, or physically perfect in our bodies, and because of our finite minds and limited understanding, we may make mistakes in our conduct, but we can be morally perfect in our heart, that is to say, we can have a good or pure intention of heart, and thus be "pure in heart" and "perfect in heart" as the bible says.

 2007/7/22 8:13









 Re: Christian Perfection

Here is a great passage that outlines some practical points in the way we should walk in. (which is a perfect way)

1Th 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

1. We are to warn them that are unruly. We do this because our Lord Jesus has warned us when we were once unruly and we love Him by following his example.
2. We are to comfort the feebleminded. We do this because our Lord Jesus has comforted our feebleminds and we love Him by following His example.
3. We are to support the weak. We do this because our Lord Jesus supports us when we are weak and we love Him by following his example.
4. We are to be patient toward all men. We do this because our Lord Jesus has been very patient with us and we love Him by following his example.

1Th 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
1Th 5:16 Rejoice evermore.
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

5. Now here (in verses 16-17) we have 3 simple and basic guidlines for Christian perfection.
a. Rejoice evermore. Evermore leaves no room for sin. Though we may stumble out of this state of rejoicing, we will repent (with godly sorrow) if we have the love of God in our hearts. The exortation leaves no room for sin. You can't sin and rejoice at the same time. Why would Paul tell us to rejoice evermore if it wasn't possible? Rejoice in the Lord's mercy upon you and never stop. Remember all his wonderful works and rejoice. With out this joy of Jesus, we shall have no strength to continue in holiness.
b. Pray without ceasing. If you are rejoicing in the truth and letting the word of Christ dwell in you richly, this unceasing prayer will come as naturally as blinking your eyes. The key is to let His word dwell in your heart richly and rejoice in it, then unceasing prayer naturally follows. The words "without ceasing" leave no room for sin. Though we may stumble out of this state of unceasing prayer, we will repent (with godly sorrow) if we have the love of God in our hearts.
The exortation leaves no room for sin. You can't sin and pray without ceasing at the same time. Why would Paul tell us to pray without ceasing if it wasn't possible? Pray for Jesus to pray through you by His Spirit. Jesus ever lives to make intercession for His people. Shouldn't we follow His example and ever live to make intercession for His people? Remember that Jesus is praying for you right now (that your faith will not fail). We should love and intercede, because He first loved and interceded for us. With out the prayers of Jesus, we shall have no strength to continue in holiness.
c. In every thing give thanks. "In every thing" leaves no room for sin. In Ephesians we are exhorted to be "Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." (5:20) God should be thanked for all tings and in everything. If you are letting His word dwell in you richly you should naturally be thanking Him for His promises and for His holiness. There is never a moment that goes by in our day when there is nothing to thank God for. A thankful heart is a heart that desperately loves Jesus and desires to express it with cheerful thanksgiving. God loves a cheerful giver. So... thanksgiving should not be done as some ritual or traditional exercise. It should be from a heart of rejoicing and unceasing prayer. Thank Him for His great mercy upon us. Thank Him for all the sin that He has saved you from and the eternal wrath in hell that He saved you from. Thank Him for the new heart that He has given you. Thank Him for His precious blood. Thank for everydrop! Thank Him for regenerating you unto new life. Never stop thanking Him. Though we may stumble out of this state of thanksgiving in everything, we will repent (with godly sorrow) if we have the love of God in our hearts. The exortation leaves no room for sin. You can't sin and give thanks for the sin. Why would Paul tell us to give thanks in everything if it wasn't possible? Pray that Jesus will keep your heart pure from unthankfulness and sinfulness. With out the mercy of Jesus, we shall have no strength to continue in holiness. Let us continually thank Him for His mercy.

So those are the 3 practical exhortations in Christian perfection. Remember... "evermore, without ceasing, and in everything" leaves no room for sin. If you have fallen out of this state of holiness repent in tears. Do it because Jesus is worthy of continual obedience and He will strengthen the weak. Love Him because He first Loved you.

If you are a professing Christian and you don't naturally do this things... or bear these fruits. Unless you repent and believe the gospel, you will perish.

Sinners crucified Jesus the Son of God, It is the way of cursed children who continue in sin, they love death and hate God.

The wrath of God abides upon them.

Jesus Christ was crucified for sinners, It is the way of the blessed Son of God who is forever righteous and gave His life a ransom for many.

The wrath of God came down on Him.

Jesus bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

His blood was shed! His eyes were filled with grief! His heart did melt!

...And God Him self fought against His own Son with an outstretched hand and with a strong arm, even in anger, and in fury, and in great wrath.

He died and He was buried.

God raised His Son from the dead on the third day, He was seen by over 500 brethren at once, He ascended into heaven, He is Lord of all who intercedes, and shall save His people from their sins.

He's coming, He's coming to judge the world with righteousness. He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and He will have compassion on whom He will have compassion. Jesus said, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Kiss the Son, Lest He be angry, and ye perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in Him. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

God bless you! -Abraham

 2007/7/22 13:48









 Re:

In the eyes of God we are already perfect if were in Christ. We are perfect. We just have to believe we are. It's all about belief. Our Caanan land is our body. Well never inter into pace and rest until we can believe we are what the bible says we are. We are the children of God. Royal heirs to the kingdom. If we will not believe that, we forfeit those blessings and never enter into the rest.

The battle is in the mind. The reason the children of Israel could not enter into Caanan was because of their unbelief.

How many times do we have to repent? How many times do we have to confess our sins? When we go to the father and ask forgiveness (if were in Christ) he says "What are you talking about?". The sin is gone we just have to believe it.

It's a hard saying, is'nt it?

We have the righteousness of the Father, and the faith of Jesus Christ if were in Christ. We just don't really know what we've got. We listen to the voices of condemnation, and guilt, and frustration instead of the voice of the Father the good Shepard.

When Jesus returns he'll be looking for one thing. Faith. "One thing thou lackest." Without FAITH it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God." All the church is worried about is works. Those works are no good without faith. Their in vain if done in the flesh. The works have to be done by God through us, or their done in the flesh. If their done in the flesh their no good.

What is the evidence that we are the children of God. Faith. "Faith is the evidence of things unseen."Why could'nt Pilot see Jesus. "What is truth?" Truth has to be seen by the eyes of faith. Jesus was the Word become flesh. He was truth.

That's why all these hard sayings and mysterys in the bible cannot be understood except through the eyes of faith. Their not that complicated, as long as you look at them in faith. As soon as you decide your gonna show your carnal wisdom and that pride wells up inside, you lose the ability to see clearly. It becomes clouded and doubt, and fear clouds your judgement. "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

Freedom is finally entering into Caanan. That peace and rest that we would have if we would just believe who we are and what we've got.

We have His Faith. We have the righteousness of God. We are free. We just have to believe it.

 2007/7/22 15:15
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Quote:

chiefosiners wrote:

When Jesus returns he'll be looking for one thing. Faith. "One thing thou lackest." Without FAITH it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God." All the church is worried about is works. Those works are no good without faith. Their in vain if done in the flesh. The works have to be done by God through us, or their done in the flesh. If their done in the flesh their no good.




I think He will also be looking for holiness too.

Heb 12:14 "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord."

Yes, we have to have faith, but it can't stop there, we must go on to holiness in the Lord.

Jordan


_________________
Jordan

 2007/7/22 18:23Profile









 Re:

Jordan,

Are you in Christ? Is Christ in you? Then you are as holy as Christ. You are "seated in the heavenlys with Christ". You already are holy you just don't believe that. You look at yourself and see failure and sin, but God only sees perfection. What really matters? What you think or what God thinks. He only thinks good thoughts about you. He loves you. He's your father not your taskmaster. If you want him to be your taskmaster he'll become your taskmaster. If you want him to be your father he'll become your father. He's whatever you make him. How come in the parable of the servants the first two entered into peace and rest but the third one had to pay up. What was it he said "I knew that thou were a HARD and AUSTEIER man",(I probably buthchered it a little, but it was something like that), so thats what he became to him, a hard and austier man.

 2007/7/22 19:54
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

chiefofsiners, I would recommend this video to you. It discusses many of the things you are saying:
[url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6435245285534114549&q=mike+Desario&total=52&start=0&num=20&so=1&type=search&plindex=9]Free From Guilt[/url]


_________________
Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/7/22 20:38Profile









 Re:

Nile,

I would discourage this video for you. Just another false teacher denying the Lord jesus Christ.

 2007/7/22 21:29
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Just another law abiding preacher, not good.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/7/22 22:35Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy