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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Orthodox Statement of Faith?

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 Re: bro roaringlamb

worm4Christ said

its just a waste of time, as I'm beginning to view this whole forum experience, what with the wacked out, weird links that "grannie annie" is posting, and Corey H's "news" items, not to mention the "sermons" we get from Jed Morrell, this forum is turning into a real hellhole....thank God, the website has the sermon downloads.

very very depressing and grievous.

Name dropping like this is very uncool. Accusing others' posts of being "wierd" or "whacked out" is uncalled for. And calling the forum a "hellhole" is over the top.

Have I offended you in some way for you to use my name negatively?

 2007/7/21 4:14


Fox believed that all men had an "inner light", and thus did not need even Bibles to tell them how to live, ads they could simply trust the light within. Only problem, is that the light within natural man is the light of deception.

Roaringlamb, I assume Fox believed in the internal conscience, as do I. I suppose you don't believe sinners have an inner conscience (inner light)? Didn't Adam and Eve recieve the knowledge of good and evil when they ate, and don't we inherit this knowledge, also called the conscience, so that we know right from wrong? Do you really hold it against George Fox that he believed man had a conscience?

Men could not be accountable if they didn't know any better, but all men are accountable because all men have a conscience.

Joh 1:9 - "That was the true Light, which [b]lighteth every man that cometh into the world"[/b]

Romans 2:14 - "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, [b]do by nature the things contained in the law[/b], these, having not the law, are [b]a law unto themselves[/b]: Which shew the work of the [b]law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,[/b] and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another"

There is no doubt however that the internal revelation we have is limited, and only adequate enough to tell us initially right and wrong, though we can later sear our consciences through continual refusal to obey it.

And so even though we are inherit a conscience, a knowledge of good and evil, this internal light or internal revelation still needs external revelation, which is why God wrote the bible. Our conscience doesn't tell us all things or all truth, but simply what is morally right and what is morally wrong. But we still need further revelation, which comes through external revelation, so internal revelation is not at all sufficient for the disciple of Christ, who must continually learn from Christ.

Even Van Til and John Calvin taught that we inherit a conscience, an "inner light" or that we all have natural or internal revelation. Many theologians, both Calvinist and Armenian, have spoken about "natural theology" or man's "inner consciousness" also known as the truth of conscience. But internal light does not exclude the absolutely necessity of eternal revelation, and further light through the enlightening of the Holy Ghost.

 2007/7/21 8:40

 Jesse Morrell

Who said I believed such things as you outlined in your original post?

Which was a post that contained purposefull UNtruths in an crude unedifying attempt to maybe in your MIND seperate the wheat from the chaff, but the fault is mine, because as Paul warned Timothy:

"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels" 2 Timothy 3:23

My elder Paul is right, and I am wrong, and I intend on cleaving to what he wrote in Scripture in this matter.

On the matter of discussing Scripture, there are two paths, one is iron sharpening iron, the other is useless and stupid arguments. The former is what I desire, but I see it less and less in these dark days, even among the saints.

as far as "comparing" you to Evan Roberts or Duncan Campbell, I want you to consider the ministry of Evan Roberts, for a brief season, he was used by God as a young man in revival, embraced by the hungry masses, then slowly opposers began to appear, said that what God was working thru and in him was not of God. After the fires of revival had been banked in Wales, he spent the rest of his life engaged in a private but powerful secret prayer ministry, anonymous to all but God the Father.

Look at the picture of him. I know it is folly to judge the outside of man, but look at his eyes.

Consider the ministry and testimony of Duncan Campbell, used of God as a young man in the mid Argyll revival of the 1920's, and then as he said he made the worst decision, he went into the ministry, meaning he got ordained, and pastored up a church, and started going thru the motions, for 17 years. 17 years in the desert of religiousity. This is by his own heartfelt admission, he was being real with God and himself, and it took the early morning admonitioning of his own daughter to awaken him from his slumber. The next day he resigned his pastorate and went forth, what happened next was the Hebridean revival of the the late 40's and early 1950's.

They thought they were "nobodies" and testified eagerily to this reality. Jesse, if you consider yourself a "nobody", then take down your open air out reach website with its music, and its pictures and its self exhaltation, take down the video's from you tube, where you argue on these campus "outreaches", that do nothing to prick the heart and consciences of those who do not know Christ. I watch them and grieve, because all I see is strife and religiousity, screaming and arguing.

But, if the Lord is telling you to keep them up, keep them up, don't listen to me....I'm serious, who am I? Just a poor lone struggling saint, that's all. Ray Comfort is a good man, a Godly man, Jed Smock is not. Is that slander? No, beacuse the Holy Spirit that lives IN me testifies to this.

Personally, for myself, outside of Scripture, the Godly men of the past that I admire and model on are not the Finney's, Wesley's, Luther's, Foxes, Fletcher's, etc. It is Evan Robert's, Duncan Campbell, David Brainerd's and yes even Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who is so reviled by many on this forum, because these men were alone and they preached a Gospel of Grace, and they did it with no large following or fanfare, but only in the Bosom of Christ, who's Blood is sufficient to save, M'Cheyne too, I loved that man, and his prayer was "Lord, make me as holy as a saved sinner can be".

These mean didnt concern themselves with "doctrine" or "systematic theology", they concerned themselves with Jesus and the utter simple FAITH that lived in them, and from that simple simple faith, came the outpouring of the Holy Ghost.

This Faith, this Gospel is SO simple, the rest of the palaber is just religion, and words and talk. The only thing worth anything is Jesus and Him crucified.

that's all I have to say, except may God bless you and bless your marriage, may it be long, and may God give you many "arrows" with this dear woman.

 2007/7/21 10:22


Have I offended you in some way for you to use my name negatively?


You post news articles that sow and spread fear, not faith....and then you have Grannie Annie to butress you with "yes and amens" and she posts a plethora of web links that take one on a hellish ride of fear and loathing. I know she thinks she's just opening the eyes of the blind, as you are, but you both are not, you are sowing fear.

Not with me, though. Are the days dark? Oh yes, but they are passing, they are but the dross of the world, not worthy to bury in one's heart. Faith is the opposite of fear, no bomb shelter will protect you, no assault rifle, no gold bars, none of it will guard your heart or mortal tent you inhabit, only Jesus and faith in Him.

and there is one other thing, you wrote in another thread that offended me, but I don't even want to get into it, because you revealed what you think, and I've seen that sort of rhetoric before, and it's a waste of time to argue with such. I've been down that road with others, no more.

as far as being "uncool"....I've never been "cool", I might stumble at times, but I don't worry about "cool" or "uncool", when I stumble or fall, as God provides his Holy Spirit to bring one of His into line, I find that dropping to my knees, confessing, repenting and praying is indeed "balm in Gilead".

"hellhole" is just another way of saying that some of the stuff I read here is NOT of Christ, and if its not of Christ, or not edifying, but solely designed to sow fear, it is a lie, and that is hellish. Have I been clear enough for you?

and as final note: I would, if I was you, reconsider the signoff you have, quoting three men, who have nothing to do with Christ.

Don't worry Corey, I leave you the floor, I won't be around here much longer.

 2007/7/21 10:45

Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 397

 Re: Corey_H


Your posts here in my view were not edifying to the Body. There are places for loving correction, but what you did was not in my view. Learn to love the brethren, even when they may be wrong and in error. Correct them where you feel lead to but do not insult my fellow brethren as you did here... GrannieAnnie, Jesse, and Corey. Their unique in their own ways and with faults but all live to serve Christ.

I find many disagreeing points with Jesse and am disgruntled with some facets of his ministry. But at the end of the day I still consider him a brother in the Lord. He's young and needs all the prayer he can get, scolding him and comparing him to Evan Roberts and displaying a picture of him that makes him look bad is not good for the Body.

 2007/7/21 10:59Profile


I recieve your correction in the spirit it was given. I might not agree, dear one, but I recieve it, know that.

God bless you, dear brother.

 2007/7/21 11:22

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California


Joh 1:9 - "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world"

But what does man do with this light?
Joh 1:5 And [b]the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.[/b]

Joh 3:19 And [b]this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.[/b]

Notice what Paul says about "darkness" here-
Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and [b]to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan[/b] unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Natural man will not come to God because of general revelation, or the conscience. Neither of these are means to salvation, because if they are, then the Gospel of Christ's death and ressurection is vain.

The Holy Spirit must convict men of sin, righteousness, and judgement to come. No man can do this, no matter how hard he tries, as the natural man receives or comprehends not the things of God for they are spiritually understood.

Notice too after your verse(John 1:9) comes this-
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 [b]Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.[/b]

Faith is a result of the new birth, not the cause of it, and this new birth is given by God alone.

Consider this verse-
James 1:18 [b]Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth,[/b] that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Or this one-
1Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, [b]which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again[/b] unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Of course men know there is a Creator, but they supress this knowledge and hate this fact, they build for themselves idols and worship and serve the creature rather than the Creator. They will not come because they cannot come, and as a blind man who senses the sun but never sees it, they wander blind, and lost until the Spirit opens their eyes.

Fox's error is that man can of his own "free" unchanged heart know God. Thus even today many Quaker meetings have little to no Scripture, but much sitting around open to the spirit. They accept all because all have "light" suposedly.

Now my comment about Wesley and Fletcher was not to infer that they were Roman Catholic, but to show how they too made the fatal mistake that Rome makes in blurring justification and sanctification, and saying that a must be sanctified to be justified. Paul referred to this(adding any work to be justified, aside from faith alone) as another Gospel.

Just wanted to make clear what I was saying, before some decided what I wasn't saying. :-)

patrick heaviside

 2007/7/21 13:39Profile


Worm you are wrong. Corey doesn't need some woman he doesn't even know to "buttress" him.

When Charles Finney did his extensive book on Masonry, he risked his own life and many said he was "bringing fear", yet I admire that man incredibly for stepping out of the box and self-protection as he did and doing something to save The Church from a very destructive power that has Infiltrated not only the Church but all governments. That is documented but would you fault him for "bringing fear" ?

If anyone "fears" any links that are well documented, it is because they have not the confidence in the LORD and what Jesus called the Comforter in full command of their lives.

The Bible is very very clear that "perilous times will come" and that the persecution and tribulation coming is horrendously fearful, so would you take those type verses out because they are a fearful thing or would you Research what Jesus commanded that we "watch" as "signs of 'our' times" ?

What you have said in your post this morning is that all of your posts are from GOD always and ours are not. I have read most of your posts and I think you've taken a lot upon yourself also.

Please do not link Corey "with" me, as I barely know the man, but find that what he posts to be well documented and his spirit for posting what he does, comes from a heart that is protective of others, whether one believes what he posts or not.

He does not have the stock piles or weapons, etc that you implied and neither do I, so please don't add more to people's posts than necessary.

Freedom of speech here has been granted to those who assume an awful lot about members they don't know at all but those who post links that are documented are called the "divisive ones" and divisions come when folks don't even care to get to know the others behind their monitors.

"hellhole" is just another way of saying that some of the stuff I read here is NOT of Christ, and if its not of Christ, or not edifying, but solely designed to sow fear, it is a lie, and that is hellish. Have I been clear enough for you?

How dare you ?

What you and Mike have posted today, that I have just now found, has been all that I felt and why the Lord got me out of bed last week, to post on a certain thread on Devotional Thoughts.

These type posts I've read today is what that fear "I' woke with was -- so now I understand that alarm I had that shook me to the core.

My fear was not of those in high places or governments, but of those in the Church.

Those were the verses I posted last nite again.

 2007/7/21 15:07

 Re: Corey_H

You post news articles that sow and spread fear, not faith....and then you have Grannie Annie to butress you with "yes and amens" and she posts a plethora of web links that take one on a hellish ride of fear and loathing. I know she thinks she's just opening the eyes of the blind, as you are, but you both are not, you are sowing fear.

"And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." (JUDE 1:22-23)

Would you prefer that no one raise a finger, or a word, against encroaching "anti-terrorist" legislation that threatens the individual libterty of U.S. and Canadian citizens...? Or that we silently acquiesce to an ever more invasive survellience society...? Or microchips the size of a grain of rice that can be implanted under the skin and tracked by Global Positioning Satellites...?

"If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people; Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head. He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul." (EZE 33:3-5)

I'm alarmed. I'm disturbed. And I wish more people were.

 2007/7/21 15:23


GrannieAnnie said

He does not have the stock piles or weapons, etc that you implied and neither do I, so please don't add more to people's posts than necessary.

Speak fer yerself... ain't no one gitten near ma' goooold! Ya hear?!?

Hehe. To anyone thought Corey was actually building a bomb shelter in his back yard... I'm not. I live in an apartment building.

It's called 'humor'.

 2007/7/21 15:27

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