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hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
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 That I may know him

you all know this verse, but when doing some word study i found some very wonderful things and when further meditating on this i felt lead to share this

Philippians 3:10 That I may [b]know him[/b], and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Strong's say this, and i highlighted what spoke to me

1097 ginw,skw ginosko {ghin-oce'-ko}
Meaning: 1) to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel 1a) to become known 2) to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of 2a) to understand 2b) to know 3) [b]Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman [/b]4) to become acquainted with, to know

The most intimate union we can have is that one with our wife or husband, for me it is so, this moment of intimate union is unlike anything else, it is so unique that God uses it to symbolize it to our relationship with him, i want to know him, i want him to be as "real" in my life as my wife is in our most intimate level. To know HIM. And i listened some time ago to a sermon called just that by the late Art Katz called intimate union, and he spoke about many things, but one of them if i remember correct was about trust, that if you going to have this kind of "union" this intimacy with someone, you have to trust them , give yourself over totally, your whole body. the whole "I".

many times in my marriage has been difficult or some problem has come because i was not willing to give my whole self, and when thinking of this i wonder how many times this is so in my Christian life?

not trust in Him completely with my walk? not [b]knowing[/b] HIM in the intimate level, as one can know their spouse.

and i believe that is some of what this verse speaks about, that we cant get the "power" until we come to know HIM on this intimate level. Until we give HIM all our self, our whole body, trust HIM with all my body and mind and soul.

so that i to can say

I know HIM..........

and then it says and the fellowship of his sufferings...... it seems to me that power=suffering

are we praying for God to "use" us? do we want to "work" for HIM? then know there will be suffering.

the word fellowship is defined by Strong's

2842 koinwni,a koinonia {koy-nohn-ee'-ah}
Meaning: 1) fellowship, association, community, communion, [b]joint participation, intercourse[/b] 1a) [b]the share which one has in anything, participation[/b] 1b) [b]intercourse, fellowship, intimacy[/b] 1b1) the right hand as a sign and pledge of fellowship (in fulfilling the apostolic office) 1c) a gift jointly contributed, a collection, [b]a contribution, as exhibiting an embodiment and proof of fellowship [/b]

Do we know Him n this kind of way? are our relationship with the Lord [b]like this?[/b]

do we know HIM?

just some thoughts from sweden....

God bless you
Christian



_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/7/17 17:01Profile









 Re: That I may know him

This is a wonderful study, brother Christian. It reminds me of the Hebrew word for 'know': 'Yada'. A couple years ago I read an article that opened my eyes to the 'Yada' factor and now when I see that word in the Scriptures it brings a new light to it.

[url=http://www.heraldofhiscoming.com/800x600/home.htm]The Yada Factor[/url]

[i]Ps 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.[/i]

 2007/7/17 17:17









 Re:

Thank you Christian.

Earlier Today I posted that word "know" and "knew" what it meant, but was too intimidated to say what I meant by "know". Amen.

Thank you for posting this and I'll link it to where I said you "know". Blessed are the pure in heart - Blessed are they that have ears and understand.


Bless you both.
Annie


Edit to add: Yada is used here as 'kinsman' also in Ruth 2:1.

 2007/7/17 17:32
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
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 Re:

can smeone help me with this lol, I know what a verb is :-) but what is this?
Origin: a prolonged form of a primary verb;

so this [b]know[/b] is something we are "doing".... im i right?


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 2007/7/17 17:42Profile









 Re:

This is from Robertson's Word Studies ...

"Php 3:10 -
That I may know him (tou gnōnai auton). Genitive of the articular second aorist (ingressive) active infinitive (purpose) of ginōskō, to have personal acquaintance or experience with. This is Paul’s major passion, to get more knowledge of Christ by experience."

 2007/7/17 17:58









 Re: 5 more ...

Php 3:10 -
That I may know him - That I may be fully acquainted with his nature, his character, his work, and with the salvation which he has worked out. It is one of the highest objects of desire in the mind of the Christian to know Christ; see the notes at Eph_3:19. (Barnes Notes.)


Php 3:10 - The knowledge of Christ, mentioned in Phi_3:8, is here more largely explained. That I may know him - As my complete Saviour. And the power of his resurrection - Raising me from the death of sin, into all the life of love. And the fellowship of his sufferings - Being crucified with him. And made conformable to his death - So as to be dead to all things here below. (Wesley.)


Php 3:10 - That I may know him--experimentally. The aim of the "righteousness" just mentioned. This verse resumes, and more fully explains, "the excellency of the knowledge of Christ" (Phi_3:8). To know HIM is more than merely to know a doctrine about Him. Believers are brought not only to redemption, but to the Redeemer Himself. (Jamieson, Fausset & Brown.)


Php 3:10 -
I: Phi_3:8; 1Jo_2:3, 1Jo_2:5 (Torrey's TSK.)


Knowing him here is believing in him: it is an experimental knowledge of the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, or feeling the transforming efficacy and virtue of them. Observe, The apostle was as ambitious of being sanctified as he was of being justified. He was as desirous to know the power of Christ's death and resurrection killing sin in him, and raising him up to newness of life, as he was to receive the benefit of Christ's death and resurrection in his justification. 4. That he might be conformable unto him, and this also is meant of his sanctification. We are then made conformable to his death when we die to sin, as Christ died for sin, when we are crucified with Christ, the flesh and affections of it mortified, and the world is crucified to us, and we to the world, by virtue of the cross of Christ. This is our conformity to his death. (Matthew Henry.)



Thank you Christian.

 2007/7/17 18:07
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re:

FROM FRIBERGS LEXICON:

25323 summorfi,zw conform to the same form; passive in the NT, only of relationship to Christ be made to conform to, become like, denoting an inward similarity of attitudes and character

thinking of knowing HIM, as being transformed into HIS image.... becoming more like HIM the more i [b]know[/b] HIM,

1 John 3:1 ¶ Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it [b]knew[/b] him not.


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 2007/7/17 18:09Profile









 Re: Neat !

Barnes up there said to refer to the Notes on Eph 3:19.

This is neat Christian ~ Thank you!

Barnes ~ Eph 3:19 -
And to know the love of Christ - The love of Christ toward us; the immensity of redeeming love. It is not merely the love which he showed for the Gentiles in calling them into his kingdom, which is here referred to; it is the love which is shown for the lost world in giving himself to die. This love is often referred to in the New Testament, and is declared to surpass all other which has ever been evinced; see the Rom_5:7-8, notes; Joh_15:13, note. To know this; to feel this; to have a lively sense of it, is one of the highest privileges of the Christian. Nothing will so much excite gratitude in our hearts; nothing will prompt us so much to a life of self-denial; nothing will make us so benevolent and so dead to the world; see the notes on 2Co_5:14.
Which passeth knowledge - There “seems” to be a slight contradiction here in expressing a wish to know what cannot be known, or in a desire that they should understand that which cannot be understood. But it is the language of a man whose heart was full to overflowing. He had a deep sense of the love of Christ, and he expressed a wish that they should understand it. Suddenly he has such an apprehension of it, that he says it is indeed infinite. No one can attain to a full view of it. It had no limit. It was unlike anything which had ever been evinced before. It was love which led the Son of God to become incarnate; to leave the heavens: to be a man of sorrows; to be reviled and persecured; to be put to death in the most shameful manner - on a cross. Who could understand that? Where else had there been anything like that? What was there with which to compare it? What was there by which it could be illustrated? And how could it be fully understood Yet “something” of it might be seen, known, felt; and the apostle desired that as far as possible they should understand that great love which the Lord Jesus had manifested for a dying world.
That ye might be filled with all the fulness of God - What an expression! How rich and glorious Who can comprehend all that it implies? Let us inquire into its meaning. There “may” be here in these verses an allusion to the “temple.” The apostle had spoken of their being founded in love, and of surveying the length, and breadth, and depth, and height of that love, as of a vast and splendid edifice, and he now desires that those whom he addressed might be pervaded or filled with the indwelling of God. The language here is cumulative, and is full of meaning and richness.
(1) they were to be “full of God.” That is, he would dwell in them.
(2) they were to be filled with “the fulness of God” - τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ Θεοῦ to ple¯ro¯ma tou Theou. On the word rendered “fulness,” see on Eph_1:10, note, 23, note. It is a favorite word with Paul. Thus, he speaks of the “fulness” of the Gentiles, Rom_11:25; the “fulness” of time, Gal_4:4; the fulness of him that filleth all in all, Eph_1:23; the “fulness” of Christ, Eph_4:13; the “fulness” of the Godhead in Christ, Col_1:19; Col_2:9. It means here, “that you may have the richest measures of divine consolation and of the divine presence; that you may partake of the entire enjoyment of God in the most ample measure in which he bestows his favors on his people.”
(3) it was to be with “all” the fulness of God; not with partial and stinted measures of his gracious presence, but with “all” which he ever bestows. Religion is not a name. It is not a matter of form. It is not a trifle. It is the richest, best gift of God to man. It ennobles our nature. It more clearly teaches us our true dignity than all the profound discoveries which people can make in science; for none of them will ever fill us with the fulness of God. Religion is spiritual, elevating, pure, Godlike. We dwell with God; walk with God; live with God; commune with God; are like God. We become partakers of the divine nature 2Pe_1:4; in rank we are associated with angels; in happiness and purity we are associated with God!


Vincent's ~ Eph 3:19 -
To know (γνωναι)
Practically, through experience; while apprehend marks the knowledge as conception.
Love of Christ
Christ's love to us. Human love to Christ could not be described in these terms.
Which passeth knowledge (τὴν υπερβάλλουσαν της γνώσεως).
Which surpasses mere knowledge without the experience of love. Note the play on the words know and knowledge.
That ye might be filled with all the fullness of God (ινα πληρωθητε εις παν τὸ πλήρωμα του θεου)
Note the recurrence of that; that He would grant you; that ye may be strong; that ye may be filled. With is better rendered unto, to the measure or standard of. Fullness of God is the fullness which God imparts through the dwelling of Christ in the heart; Christ, in whom the Father was pleased that all the fullness should dwell (Col_1:19), and in whom dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead (Col_2:9).


Clarke ~ Eph 3:19 -
To know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge - It is only by the love of Christ that we can know the love of God: the love of God to man induced him to give Christ for his redemption; Christ’s love to man induced him to give his life’s blood for his salvation. The gift of Christ to man is the measure of God’s love; the death of Christ for man is the measure of Christ’s love. God so loved the world, etc. Christ loved us, and gave himself for us.
But how can the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, be known? Many have labored to reconcile this seeming contradiction. If we take the verb γνωναι in a sense in which it is frequently used in the New Testament, to approve, acknowledge, or acknowledge with approbation, and γνωσις to signify comprehension, then the difficulty will be partly removed: “That ye may acknowledge, approve, and publicly acknowledge, that love of God which surpasseth knowledge.” We can acknowledge and approve of that which surpasses our comprehension. We cannot comprehend God; yet we can know that he is; approve of, love, adore, and serve him. In like manner, though we cannot comprehend, the immensity of the love of Christ, yet we know that he has loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood; and we approve of, and acknowledge, him as our only Lord and Savior. In this sense we may be said to know the love of Christ that passeth knowledge.
But it is more likely that the word γνωσις, which we translate knowledge, signifies here science in general, and particularly that science of which the rabbins boasted, and that in which the Greeks greatly exulted. The former professed to have the key of knowledge; the secret of all Divine mysteries; the latter considered their philosophers, and their systems of philosophy, superior to every thing that had ever been known among men, and reputed on this account all other nations as barbarians. When the apostle prays that they may know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, he may refer to all the boasted knowledge of the Jewish doctors, and to all the greatly extolled science of the Greek philosophers. To know the love of Christ, infinitely surpasseth all other science. This gives a clear and satisfactory sense.
That ye might be filled with all the fullness of God - Among all the great sayings in this prayer, this is the greatest. To be Filled with God is a great thing; to be filled with the Fulness of God is still greater; but to be filled with All the fullness of God, παν το πληρωμα του Θεου, utterly bewilders the sense and confounds the understanding.
Most people, in quoting these words, endeavor to correct or explain the apostle, by adding the word communicable; but this is as idle as it is useless and impertinent. The apostle means what he says, and would be understood in his own meaning. By the fullness of God, we are to understand all those gifts and graces which he has promised to bestow on man, and which he dispenses to the Church. To be filled with all the fullness of God, is to have the whole soul filled with meekness, gentleness, goodness, love, justice, holiness, mercy, and truth. And as what God fills, neither sin nor Satan can fill; consequently, it implies that the soul shall be emptied of sin, that sin shall neither have dominion over it, nor a being in it. It is impossible for us to understand these words in a lower sense than this. But how much more they imply, (for more they do imply), I cannot tell. As there is no end to the merits of Christ, no bounds to the mercy and love of God, no limits to the improvability of the human soul, so there can be no bounds set to the saving influence which God will dispense to the heart of every believer. We may ask, and we shall receive, and our joy shall be full.


John Gill ~ Eph 3:19 - And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge,.... The love of Christ to his own, to his church and people, is special and peculiar; free and Sovereign; as early as his Father's love, and is durable and unchangeable; the greatest love that ever was heard of; it is matchless and unparalleled; it is exceeding strong and affectionate, and is wonderful and surprising: the instances of it are, his engaging as a surety for them; his espousing both their persons and their cause; his assumption of their nature; his dying in their room and stead; his payment of their debts, atoning for their sins, and bringing in for them an everlasting righteousness; his going to prepare a place for them in heaven; his intercession for them there; his constant supply of all their wants, and the freedom and familiarity he uses them with. The saints have some knowledge of this love, some tastes of it; their knowledge is a feeling and experimental one, fiducial and appropriating, and what influences their faith, and love, and cheerful obedience, but it is but imperfect; though the knowledge they have of it is supereminent, it exceeds all other knowledge, yet this love passes knowledge; not only the knowledge of natural men, who know nothing of it, but the perfect knowledge of saints themselves, in the present life, and of angels also, who desire to look into it, and the mysteries of it; and especially it is so as to some instances of it, such as the incarnation of Christ, his becoming poor who was Lord of all, being made sin, and a curse, and suffering, the just for the unjust. Now the apostle prays, that these saints might know more of this love; that their knowledge, which was imperfect, might be progressive.

That ye might be filled with all the fulness of God; this is the last petition, and is to be understood, not of a full comprehension of the divine Being, nor of a communication of his divine perfections, nor of having in them the fulness of grace, which it has pleased God should dwell in Christ; but either of that fulness of good things, which they may receive from God in this life; as to be filled with a sense of the love and grace of God; with satisfying views of interest in the righteousness of Christ; with the Spirit, and the gifts and graces thereof; with full provisions of food for their souls; with spiritual peace, joy, and comfort; with knowledge of divine things, of God in Christ, of Christ, of the Gospel, and of the will of God; and with all the fruits or righteousness, or good works springing from grace; or else of that fulness which they shall receive hereafter, even complete holiness, perfection of knowledge, fulness of joy and peace, entire conformity to God and Christ, and everlasting communion with them.


Robertson's ~ Eph 3:19 -
And to know (gno¯nai te). Second aorist active infinitive with exischuse¯te.
Which passeth knowledge (te¯n huperballousan te¯s gno¯seo¯s). Ablative case gno¯seo¯s after huperballousan (from huperballo¯). All the same Paul dares to scale this peak.
That ye may be filled with all the fulness of God (hina ple¯ro¯the¯te eis pa¯n to ple¯ro¯ma tou theou). Final clause again (third use of hina in the sentence) with first aorist passive subjunctive of ple¯roo¯ and the use of eis after it. One hesitates to comment on this sublime climax in Paul’s prayer, the ultimate goal for followers of Christ in harmony with the injunction in Mat_5:48 to be perfect (teleioi) as our heavenly Father is perfect. There is nothing that any one can add to these words. One can turn to Rom_8:29 again for our final likeness to God in Christ.

 2007/7/17 18:18
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re:

Ephesians 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.


yes a very deep verse indeed, im still on the track of suffering from phil 3:10....hat I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;


when we know HIM in this intimate way, as likend to a intimate sexual relationship between a man and a woman, when we come so deep into the "knowing" the Lord, then will we "know" the power of HIS resurrection and the fellowship of HIS suffering......

Do we know ANYTHING of it ? do I ?

what was HIS sufferings, i talked yesterday with bro Kire(tears of joy) and he showed me the verses where Jesus is in the garden praying and sweating blood, and an angel comes to strengthen HIM.....

Jesus was so in pain and agony and suffering HE needed a Angel to strengthen HIM.

Do we share this with HIM, have we water to the ankels yet?[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=18072&forum=45]can you remember?[/url]

i will continue to dwell upon this issue and post something later, til then i recomend yopu all to watch tis "humbling" video. [url=http://kbonev.christian.net/wurmbrand.htm]what is your name?[/url]


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 2007/7/18 9:04Profile
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
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 Re:

Who Will Carry The Cross?
By Thomas à Kempis

Jesus has now many who love His heavenly kingdom, but few who carry His cross. He has many who desire consolation, but few who desire tribulation. He finds more to share His table, few His fasting. All wish to rejoice with Him, few want to bear anything for Him. Many follow Jesus to the breaking of bread, but few to drinking the cup of suffering. Many revere His miracles, few follow the shame of His cross. Many love Jesus so long as adversity does not befall them. Many praise and bless Him, so long as they receive some consolations from Him. But if Jesus should hide Himself and leave them for a little while, they fall into complaining or deep dejection.

But those who love Jesus for Jesus’ sake, and not for any consolation of their own, bless Him in all tribulation and anguish of heart, just as in the highest consolation. And if it is His will never to give consolation, they would nevertheless always praise Him, and always wish to be grateful.


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 2007/7/18 9:43Profile





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