Poster | Thread | Nellie Member
Joined: 2004/4/5 Posts: 952
| Re: | | There are so many that are being deceived by the WOF movement. We all must remember that it will not be popular with anyone to take a stand against them. A lot of times we will be the only one who walks out. I walked out last Sunday from a Church Service. The Pastor of this Church had asked this man to so call preach. He had been told to call this man. He was WOF, plus in the last Church I attended, he was telling people they were Prophets and Prophetess's, and promising people monetary gain. Whatever happened to Jesus, who had no place to lay His Head?
Unless the Holy Spirit reveiled that this is a false doctrine, they won't believe us. Even when we give Scripture. I've tried to tell them.
Krispy, did someone or God show you they were false?
God Bless all. Nellie
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| 2007/8/19 11:49 | Profile |
| Re: | | Quote:
Krispy, did someone or God show you they were false?
It's a testimony that I have given numerous times on this forum... but the Readers Digest versions is...
I was saved in a WOF church. The salvation was genuine, and I understand salvation thru and thru. However, it went down hill from there, and I blame myself mainly because being completely ignorant of the Bible and church when I was saved I just swallowed whatever anyone told me, trusting those "in authority"... and being told that questioning those "in authority" is the same thing as "touching the Lord's annointed", a no-no in WOF circles.
We see it here on this forum from time to time. It's going on right now, people telling us we shouldnt question men like Rick Joyner or Mike Bickle because they are the Lord's "annointed", and they do a lot of good works.
Anyway, I was eating up books by anybody and everybody... Good Morning Holy Spirit (a Hinn book) was handed to me by a pastor only days after I was saved. This man didnt have a spare Bible to lend me till I got one of my own, but he was happy to give me that wretched piece of work by Benny Hinn. That should have been my first clue.
Then I went on to read Hagin, Copeland, Joyce Meyer, TD Jakes... brother, I read 'em all. Visited Brownsville, went to Hinn Crusades, etc.
The one thing I never did much was watch TBN. I was 20 or so when the whole Jim Bakker thing hit the fan, and I was far from being saved at that point. I was a foul mouthed, hard drinking womanizer when that was all going on. I mocked Tammy Faye, and the whole televangelist movement. So I was never able to bring myself to watching what passes for Christian TV. I did catch Copeland now and then. But I was more of a book reader.
The deeper we got into it all the more I started to see cracks in the whole thing. Unfulfilled "prophecies"... promises that we were told were scriptural but really werent (but just manipulation tactics to get money)... much abuse of "authority"... sexual scandels galore... divorced ministers guilty of adultry given back the pulpit after only 6 months of "counceling"... etc.
Now, there are some very sincere WOF leaders. Dont get me wrong. Many live very moral lives. I dont want to paint them all the same color.
But the doctrines they believe and teach breed these kinds of problems. It's a natural result.
A friend of mine advised me to put the books, CD series, etc down... and just read God's Word and study it. God has given us everything we need between Genesis & Revelation. There is no new revelation after the close of the Bible. God has not added anything new to what He has already given. We have teachers among us, this is true. And they are needed. Expository preaching is a gift from God. But we are responsible for ourselves as far as learning God's Word. All men are liars, God is truth.
So I bought a Matthew Henry Commentary (not the concise one either, the full blown one!), and I sat down with God's Word and MH... slowly went thru the Bible. I was to the point where we only went to church about once a month. God was really taking me out to the desert.
It took a long time, but I came out of the desert a new man, and my wife a new woman. And I was [b]angry[/b]. Angry at those who taught me deception for several years. And also angry at myself for allowing myself to be deceived, and for ignoring the obvious answer to deceit... God's Word.
Most in the church we were attended began to shun us. We lost a lot of "so-called" friends. People who had led me to the Lord called me "apostate". My name was mentioned from the pulpit as being one of the seeds who falls on dry ground and dies. I was told I was leaven, and I was going to ruin the entire lump with my questioning of what was being taught. I was actually told "I am the pastor, and it is not your place to question me."
There was a lot of hurt. But because I knew the truth, I stood on my own two feet and would not bow.
So to answer your question... God the Holy Spirit showed me thru the Word.
And praise God, I'm not hurt or angry anymore. Neither is my wife. The friends we lost were replaced by friends who are more than friends, they are family to me. And we dont see eye-to-eye on everything, but it doesnt matter.
God is good.
Krispy |
| 2007/8/19 12:16 | | PaulWest Member
Joined: 2006/6/28 Posts: 3405 Dallas, Texas
| Re: | | When you speak out against these kinds of teachings, you will be accused of not believing the [i]full gospel[/i]. I've had to suffer this reproach personally, and by a brother whom I loved and still love. He saturates himself with books by Kenneth Hagen and Tommy Tenney and Juanita Bynum, and from them he has learned to "rebuke" sickness and "claim" physical healing Jesus brings us by His stripes.
These teachers say that if you feel sick, don't confess it. If you're financially strapped, don't confess it. Instead, begin proclaiming your victory...and God will reward your faith. What a way to cheapify the gospel and misunderstand the atonement! I sincerely believe God has purposed the false teachers to stand in the pulpit and lie in the limelight in order to test the heart of man. In many cases, the sheep that follow them are born-again believers, but they have been led astray on account of failed discipleship. It's like a goat giving birth to a kid, and as soon as the kid is born he is snatched away by human hands and fed a bottle of formulaic goatmilk. The kid should have remained with his mother to feed from her udder. A true servant of God will always lead a new convert to the Bible whereby he can grow by sincere milk. A true preacher will only indicate the true milksource, and never the man-made bottle of synthetic design.
And so, many are fed from formula instead of the udder, for the forumula bottle is all they've ever known, it's easy, convenient. You have to work at getting under the udder, you have to labor to find the source, which is sometimes hidden to foster a greater maturity in seeking it out. What they need is a man of God who can point them to the udder, but such a man can't speak of it until he himself has found it and tasted of it. There are those hungry kids that will abandon WOF teachings once they taste the freshness of truth, once they see that they've been fed junk all their Christian life, and can't possibly grow any more. The bottle promotes carnal growth, whereas the udder spiritual. Spiritual eyes, therefore, must be opened to survey spiritual diminishment and detest carnal obnoxiousness.
Brother Paul _________________ Paul Frederick West
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| 2007/8/19 12:30 | Profile |
| Re: | | Excellent word, bro Paul!
Let me add to what you said here:
Quote:
These teachers say that if you feel sick, don't confess it. If you're financially strapped, don't confess it.
Oh man, this was hammered into my head. You know what this really is? [b]Superstition.[/b] Nothing more. Paul never once indicated (or any other scripture writer) that we should not be realistic about our state in this life! The following scriptures go completely against this WOF heresy:
[b]2Co 8:1-2[/b] [i]Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia; How that in a [b]great trial of affliction[/b] the abundance of their joy and [b]their deep poverty[/b] abounded unto the riches of their liberality.[/i]
[b]Rev 2:9[/b] [i]I know thy works, [b]and tribulation, and poverty[/b], (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.[/i]
[b]Rom 15:26[/b] [i]For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the [b]poor saints[/b] which are at Jerusalem.[/i]
[b]Jam 2:5[/b] [i]Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen [b]the poor of this world[/b] rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?[/i]
[b]Jam 5:14-15[/b] [i]Is any [b]sick[/b] among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord...[/i]
(Notice it doesnt say "deny your sick and claim your healing!" It says have the elders of the church pray over you!)
[b]2Co 11:25-28[/b] [i]Thrice was I [b]beaten with rods[/b], once was I [b]stoned[/b], thrice I [b]suffered shipwreck[/b], a night and a day I have been [b]in the deep[/b]; In journeyings often, in [b][color=0000FF]perils[/color][/b] of waters, in [b][color=0000FF]perils[/color][/b] of robbers, in [b][color=0000FF]perils[/color][/b] by mine own countrymen, in [b][color=0000FF]perils[/color][/b] by the heathen, in [b][color=0000FF]perils[/color][/b] in the city, in [b][color=0000FF]perils[/color][/b] in the wilderness, in [b][color=0000FF]perils[/color][/b] in the sea, in [b][color=0000FF]perils[/color][/b] among false brethren; In [b]weariness and painfulness[/b], in watchings often, in [b]hunger and thirst[/b], in fastings often, in [b]cold and nakedness[/b]. Beside those things that are without, that which [b]cometh upon me DAILY[/b], the care of all the churches.[/i]
Huh?? No mention of Rolex watches? No limo's? No Rolls Royces? Where does Paul mention the seaside manson in Malibu? I know it must be in there somewhere!
And I challenge anyone on this forum to show me where, in the NT, material possesions and earthly gain, and monetary wealth is even once shown as a blessing or something the believer should desire or chase after. In the OT there were instances where God blessed in that manner as a sign of His favor... but that was a different covenant and dispensation. We are under the New Conenant.
WOF crumbles under the weight of those passages. WOF claims promises made to a different people, under a different covenant, in a different dispensation. Is God the same yesterday, today and forever? Absolutely, Amen He is! But His dealings with man [b]have[/b] changed. That's Bible 101. We can not claim the same promises for ourselves! They were not written for us. They were not given to us. Tho WOF denies this, the fact is... WOF is basically a natural progression of "Replacement Theology".
This is exactly what started getting me to thinking that WOF wasnt all it was cracked up to be. The more I read the Bible the more I couldnt justify all the "blab it and grab it" theology that was coming my way via the pulpit.
I remember distinctly the sermon that I heard in that church that really pushed me into "Berean-mode"... the guest preacher said that Jesus was wealthy beyond compare. Jesus was able to quit working as a carpenter and go into full time ministry because of the gold the wise men brought to Him as a gift when He was born. So He and the disciples were living on that gold, which by todays standards was probably several million dollars.
... and a scripture popped into my mind (via the Holy Spirit) which says:
[b]Mat 8:20[/b] [i]And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.[/i]
And that is was the beginning of my journey out of WOF.
Krispy |
| 2007/8/19 13:40 | | PaulWest Member
Joined: 2006/6/28 Posts: 3405 Dallas, Texas
| Re: | | Quote:
2Co 11:25-28 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me DAILY, the care of all the churches.
Yes, brother. As I like to say, this was God's prosperity plan for the greatest, holiest, most spiritual Christian who ever lived. Error has a wonderful way of crumbling into dust when lifted up before the face of Holy Scripture. _________________ Paul Frederick West
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| 2007/8/19 14:04 | Profile | Santana Member
Joined: 2006/8/17 Posts: 286
| Re: | | What's your opinion on, not only Benny Hinn, but any preacher driving a Rolls Royce?
There's a local megachurch around the corner where the Bishop has a 2007 Bentley but I can't judge him by that?
It just doesn't look good. _________________ Leonardo Santana
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| 2007/8/19 14:21 | Profile | Tears_of_joy Member
Joined: 2003/10/30 Posts: 1554
| Re: | | Quote:
What's your opinion on, not only Benny Hinn, but any preacher driving a Rolls Royce?
Joh 12:14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written, Joh 12:15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
Mat 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord.
That doesn't mean that we cannot have a car, but in the light of this, in the light of the life of our Master, oh, it will break your heart... And you will be in shame to live in luxuries. It MUST break your heart. It must...otherwise where is your heart? where?
Disciples..
Master..
Discipleship..
Lordship...
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| 2007/8/19 14:34 | Profile | Tears_of_joy Member
Joined: 2003/10/30 Posts: 1554
| Re: | | Quote:
There's a local megachurch around the corner where the Bishop has a 2007 Bentley but I can't judge him by that?
Brother, the only word that cries in my mind when I read such grievous testimonies is RUN, and not just RUN, but run with ALL your might for your life! (I'm not talking about you personally)
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Not many see this as clearly as a young disciple named R_____ M_____. In 1960, he was president of the freshman class of a Christian school. During his term, it was proposed that expenditures be made for the usual class parties, jackets, and a class gift. Rather than approve such expenditures which did not contribute directly to the furtherance of the gospel, R_____ M_____ resigned from his post as president. The following letter was distributed to his fellow classmen on the day his resignation was announced:
Dear Classmates:
Since the matters of class parties, jackets, and the class gift have been brought before the Cabinet, I, as the president of the class have been considering the Christian attitude toward these areas.
I think we would find the greatest joy for our own selves in giving ourselves, our money, and our time entirely for Christ and for others, thus finding the reality of His Words: He who loses his life for My sake will find it.
For Christians to spend their money and time on things that do not result in a definite witness to the unbeliever or for the building up of His children in Him would seem to be inconsistent with the facts that 7000 people die daily from starvation and over half the world has never heard of mans only Hope.
How much more glory we could give to God by helping to spread the Gospel to the other 60% of the world who have never heard of Jesus Christ or even in many neighboring homes instead of coming together in a little clique by ourselves, limiting our social well-roundedness to those of like mind, and wasting money and time for our own pleasure.
Since I am aware of specific needs and opportunities where finances can be used to such great advantage to the glory of Jesus Christ and for helping my neighbor here and abroad, it is impossible for me to allow class funds to be spent unnecessarily on ourselves. If I were one of those who are in so great a need, as I know of so many to be in, I would want those who have the ability to do all that they could to supply me with the Gospel and with my material needs.
And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them.
But if any one has the worlds goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does Gods love abide in him?
Therefore it is with love and prayer, that you might see the Lord Jesus giving His all (2 Corinthians 8:9), that I hereby submit to you my resignation as president of the class of 63.
In Him with you,
R_____ M_____
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| 2007/8/19 15:27 | Profile | jennylocht Member
Joined: 2007/8/16 Posts: 2
| Re: | | Krispy, did someone or God show you they were false? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a testimony that I have given numerous times on this forum... but the Readers Digest versions is... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Krispy I just read your Reader´s Digest Testimony and I really praise God for what He did in your life and your wife´s !!! It gives big hope to read about people letting the Holy Spirit really guide them to the Truth and the Word. I really think more time and faith in prayer is needed from Bible-reading Christians for our brothers and sisters who are entangled in false teachings and false churches, not only Mr. Hinn´s, but worldwide. God wants to answer his children !!! The formula is clear: more Bible, more letting God teach us, more guidance from the Holy Spirit, more Jesus´ life in us GOd bless you all
Jenny |
| 2007/8/19 16:35 | Profile | Nellie Member
Joined: 2004/4/5 Posts: 952
| Re: | | Thanks a lot, Krispy. I'm glad the Holy Spirit showed you. God Bless Nellie |
| 2007/8/19 18:29 | Profile |
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