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 Freewill & Boasting

FREEWILL & BOASTING

Suppose a man, of his own freewill, swims out very far into the ocean. He was just wanting to have fun. But now realizes it was a dangerous move, because it's very far away.

So now, of his own freewill, he tries to swim back. But it's no use. It's too far. Sure his will was free, and got him out there. And his will is still free, and "wills" to get back. But it's just too far.

Then a boat comes along, and the man cries out for help of his own freewill. The boat then, under order of their Sovereign Captain, throws out a life preserver, and a rope lader to climb the side of the ship.

The foolish man, who swam all that way of his own freewill, then uses his freewill to put on the preserver, swim towards the ladder, and climb on up to safety.

How absurd would it be for the man to BOAST how great and awesome he is, that he just saved himself? There is nothing to boast of. In fact, he should be humbled because it was his own stupid and foolish decision that got him in the mess. He should be grateful to the Sovereign Captain who heard his cries, answered his cries, and made his deliverance to safety possible.

Thus it is with sinners and salvation. Sinners sin of their own freewill. And even if they "will" with their freewill to save themselves, they cannot, because it's just too far to swim. The only thing they can do is cry out to the God who hears and answers our prayers, who made salvation possible to all those who reach out and grab it.

Sinners have nothing to boast of. It was their own stupidity and foolishness that put them in danger. They should rather be grateful to the Sovereign God who has heard our cries and answered our cries by making salvation possible to all through Jesus Christ.

 2007/7/13 0:00
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re: Freewill & Boasting

Better yet, what if the man was dead in the water, and someone came and gave him life, and carried him back to shore!!

Then he couldn't even boast of the life given him let alone anyhting else.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/13 0:05Profile









 Re:

The man was dead in the water, though he was still alive with freewill. The man was hopeless, and could "will" to be saved, but couldn't save himself.

Just like sinners are dead in sin, though they are still alive with freewill. Sinners are hopeless and can only cry out for help because they cannot save themselves.

They are "dead even while" they "live" (1Tim 5:6)

 2007/7/13 0:08









 Re:

Hey Jesse, did you just find these verses or something ?

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

___________________________________________

Are you ready for these ?

Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskillfull in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briars is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

 2007/7/13 0:14
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
They are "dead even while" they "live" (1Tim 5:6)



Horrible misapplication. Here is the verse-
1Ti 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

The context is not about salvation at all, and if anything further illustrates the fact that unsaved people are dead in sin, and unable to respond to God unless He gives them the ability to do so.

Here is what Thayer's says about the word "dead"
G2348
θνήσκω
thnēskō
Thayer Definition:
1) to die, to be dead
2) metaphorically to be spiritually dead


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/13 0:18Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:
roaringlamb wrote:

unable to respond to God unless He gives them the ability to do so.


Does not God give ability to everyone?

 2007/7/13 0:23Profile









 Re:

God doesn't save us BECAUSE of our freewill. But no man is saved AGAINST his freewill.

We are saved because God's grace, not because ourselves.

It's mans own freewill that keeps him back from coming to God to recieve the salvation that God offers to all men. We cannot boast of saving ourselves. But we must yeild our freewill to God in order to be saved.

The final decision respecting salvation is our own freewill. God is already willing to recieve us, and Christ died for us, but God will not force anyone to heaven. The final decision is ours:

Re 22:17 - And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

And so God offers eternal life, but we must come unto Him to get it.

Quote:
Does not God give ability to everyone?



Of coarse, because God wants everyone to be saved, not willing that any should perish, but that all should voluntarily turn from their sinning.

Clement of Alexandria said, “We…have believed and are saved by voluntary choice.” (c.195, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 287, published by Hendrickson Publishers)

 2007/7/13 0:29
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
And so God offers eternal life, but we must come unto Him to get it.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does not God give ability to everyone?
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Of coarse, because God wants everyone to be saved, not willing that any should perish, but that all should voluntarily turn from their sinning.



So then Jesus was lying when He said
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

or this
John 6:64 But [b]there are some of you that believe not.[/b] For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
John 6:65 And he said, [b]Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.[/b]

Or how about this, where He is speaking of those who did not believe-
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: [b]and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.[/b]

If the only way men can come, or know is for God to do something, the it is safe to assume that those who do not come or know have not had God do that something for them to come or know. It doesn't say anything about all men being saved.

Again to use that verse from Peter is misapplication for it is speaking of the elect as that is who the letters were written to, and even the language structure points to "all of a gruop", and not "all of humanity". If God wanted all men saved they would be.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/7/13 0:43Profile









 Re:

Quote:
by Lazarus1719 on 2007/7/13 0:29:29

God doesn't save us BECAUSE of our freewill. But no man is saved AGAINST his freewill.

We are saved because God's grace, not because ourselves.

It's mans own freewill that keeps him back from coming to God to recieve the salvation that God offers to all men. We cannot boast of saving ourselves. But we must yeild our freewill to God in order to be saved.

The final decision respecting salvation is our own freewill. God is already willing to recieve us, and Christ died for us, but God will not force anyone to heaven. The final decision is ours:

Re 22:17 - And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

And so God offers eternal life, but we must come unto Him to get it.

Quote:
-------------------------------------

Does not God give ability to everyone?
-------------------------------------


Of coarse, because God wants everyone to be saved, not willing that any should perish, but that all should voluntarily turn from their sinning.

Clement of Alexandria said, “We…have believed and are saved by voluntary choice.” (c.195, A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 287, published by Hendrickson Publishers)




Jesse, doesn't this post seem to contradict itself and your first one ?

 2007/7/13 0:45









 Re:

Why does this look like a freewill verse ?

Act 26:20 But showed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, [u]that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.[/u]

 2007/7/13 0:48





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