| Re: Heaven or hell?|
I'm not going to open up that can of worms, BUT, I got a very strong sense, a follower of Jesus is going to be very very surprised at whom one sees in Heaven and whom one doesn't see.
Fear God, love Mercy and Justice, stay humble, follow Jesus. Thats my marching orders.
There are some aspects of Roman Catholic doctrine that are completely obvious (to true believers) in the sense of their detraction from Biblical truth. Prayers to saints, the infallibility of the Pope, "chanted" prayers, "holy water," required acts of "penance," purgatory, and even the historical claims of the "Church" -- they demonstrate the obvious doctrinal flaws and outright lies that have been perpetrated over the years. I understand that there will be individuals that attend Roman Catholic churches who truly have created a relationship with Jesus. Over time, these individuals will themselves recognize the flaws in the doctrines of the Church. True believers, I feel, will "come out" of the RCC as their hunger for truth increases.
Ironically, a valid historical analysis of Christianity will reveal some rather shocking details into how much "Roman Catholicism" is still present in "evangelical" churches. Even the "program schedule" of our "services" is quite reflective of the nature of the Roman Catholic Church (taken from Roman/Greek mythological temple service) rather than the simplistic "breaking of bread" in the early Church. I've often wondered what early believers would think of our modern corporate "houses" of worship and our modern "service schedules." Would the early apostles run through our "services" shouting "Ichabod"?!? Maybe not. Perhaps they would gently instruct us about the "errors" of our modern ways.
I agree with others that, in a sense, the pope was correct. While he is also incorrect about the justification of his own institution, I would argue that all other churches (including the RCC) are not the true Church. The membership of the true Church is not found on a roll on Earth. Rather, our "membership" is found in the Book of Life. Membership is not simply open for those who pass a denominational or sectarian test or for those who receive an official baptism certificate. Rather, the membership is open to all who call upon the Lord in truth.
| 2007/7/11 11:44||Profile|
ok...normally I am just an observer here, but this time I could not resist.
Having been raised a Roman Catholic and now being a Protastant I think I have a pretty balanced view of the issue. Every church as its pluses and minuses. None of us have all the truth. The RCC has much to offer and we need to get beyond our own prejudices. Sometimes I think they have more right than our "modern American" churches. This battle about who is the "true church" is ridiulious. Name calling never got anyone anywhere and only puts people on the deffensive. If you want to win someone to your side, try focusing on the things you have in common first. My journey to salvation began when I began to seek Jesus himself as a catholic....its amazing how the Holy Spirit can change your mind about many things. I choose to leave the church, but I still have a found affection for it because it has taught me many things that I still find relevant to my walk today.
| 2007/7/11 11:46||Profile|
ccchhhrrriiisss - right on!
godsewe - what you have said contradicts the word of God. I have NOTHING in common with idol worshippers.
The Apostle Paul said: (2 Corinthians 6)
14Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
17"Therefore come out from them
and be separate, says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you."
18"I will be a Father to you,
and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."
In Christ - Jim
| 2007/7/11 11:54|
The RCC has [b]much[/b] to offer
I would be curious to know what this "much" may be. What can the RCC possibly offer a genuine child of God? I, too, was brought up Roman Catholic and still know many people caught up in this religious system. I have Roman Catholic friends, and I see the controlling power of the sytem continuing to blind them, deceiving them into believing they are washed clean and born-again each time they take the Eucharist.
I choose to leave the church, but I still have a found affection for it
I commend you! I also have a fondness for [i]Roman Catholics[/i], but certainly not for their church. If a person leaves the "mother church" they are considered anathema, cursed. They have committed a mortal sin. In the RCC's eyes, you are actually a heretic deserving death. God has since emasculated the RCC's power over Western civilization, and so we can say these things without fear of arrest and confiscation of our property and being burnt as heretics, but the spirit behind the RCC remains as dark as always.
Paul Frederick West
| 2007/7/11 14:59||Profile|
| Re: Pope: other Christian denominations not true churches|
[b]God has since emasculated the RCC's power over Western civilization, and so we can say these things without fear of arrest and confiscation of our property and being burnt as heretics[/b], but the spirit behind the RCC remains as dark as always.
You think so?
For how long will this idyll last, I wonder...
| 2007/7/11 15:29|
| Re: Pope: Other Christian denominations not true churches.|
Wilkerson did prophecy that in his book the Vision that Rome was going to shut her doors to the Charismatic Movement. Praising the LORD freely is not going to be tolerated in the masses like they do today, the basement is the only place they can do it. But I do agree with Worm4christ, big deal!!
| 2007/7/11 15:38|
I am glad that pope said this. My hope is that all of this ecumenical nonsense will come to a halt. Catholics believe one way about justification and Protestants believe another.
These two positions cannot be reconciled without one side capitulating. I for one am not willing because it would mean turning my back on the truth.
| 2007/7/11 15:48||Profile|
At least they are again being honest about their position concerning non-catholic churches. In the past, they interpreted Vatican II as saying we are less than perfect, but still related somehow. I didn't buy it. And I am glad that the current Pope is making the Catholic churches position crystal clear. It should help those who think they (the Catholic) consider us to be "in the church". In reality, officially, we are not saved. To be saved you must be IN the Catholic church. They have always held this position firmly and they always will.
| 2007/7/12 9:11||Profile|
I think now is a good time for Christians to obtain a copy of Martin Luther's book: Table Talk. We'll once again find out why we're "protest"ants. Catholicism and Protestantism are two different religions.
SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey
| 2007/7/12 10:42||Profile|
I think now is a good time for Christians to obtain a copy of Martin Luther's book: Table Talk.
Martin Luther reformed the church back to its post constantine apostacy and no further. Lets read the book of Acts and the words of Jesus instead!
Catholicism and Protestantism are two different religions.
So are Protestantism and Christianity.
In Christ - Jim
| 2007/7/12 10:56|