SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Evan Roberts Quote
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Sinners must DO something TO BE SAVED!

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 Next Page )
PosterThread
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: God Does Not Accept Sinners As They Are!

I am a sinner saved by grace. So I do not say who has found salvation or who is going to hell, I am so thankful for receiving God's grace and not His righteous judgement. Because I in the flesh am guilty of the law and must not and cannot judge others. All power to judge was given to the only Righteous Son that fulfilled the law and as the only righteous one reconciled me unto Himself. My flesh to is under the curse of the law which is death and my flesh will die, but according to the spirit I have eternal life through faith in Him who justified me by His love on the cross. I now live by faith in the word of God

Eddie


_________________
Eddie

 2007/6/30 14:20Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

I found John Gill's note on this phrase worthwhile

[i][b]"go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven"[/b] not that either the law of God, or Gospel of Christ, require this to be done of all men, and at all times; for though it is a duty binding upon all, and always, to relieve the poor and the needy, yet a man is not obliged to give all that he has to them; see 2 Corinthians 8:11 nor does either legal or Christian perfection lie in doing this: a man may give all his goods to the poor and yet be destitute of the grace of God, (1 Corinthians 13:3) much less can such an action merit the heavenly treasure of eternal life. Nevertheless of some persons, and in some cases, it has been required, that they part with all their worldly substance, for the sake of Christ and his Gospel; as the apostles were called to leave all and follow Christ, as this man was also; for it is added...[/i]

And at the same time, I think both of you gentlemen are right in a sense. For Christ was pointing out to the rich young man that indeed there was a greater righteousness he needed, but also that the point of the Law was not simply to be heard, but done for not the hearers of the Law are justified, but the doers.

This young man made his boast of the Law and that he had kept it precisely his whole life, to which Christ says in effect, "very well if it is as you say, then put your talk into practise, be a doer of the law, for if you will boast in the Law, then you must continue in it and do all it commands."

Now we must look at this passage as well in light of the Gospel, and not just under the guise of Law. For ths same standard applies to us does it not? We are obligated to perfect obedience to the Law and all its tennets. However this is impossible with men, and thus a perfect obedience must be accepted in our place i.e. Christ's. This is what is known as the active obedience of Christ. His perfect life under the Law pays the debt owed by His people for their breaking the Law, thus we are no longer under Law, but grace as His obedience has been imputed to us as well.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/6/30 14:39Profile









 Re:

Again, the issue was not riches, it was, is, and will always be righteousness. There will be many poor people in hell who did not receive Christ, simply because they (just like the rich) went about to establish their own righteousness.

Salvation (Righteousness) is a gift from God. (Romans 5:15-21) It is not something we attain, it something we recieve.

In order for an individual to recieve the Righteousness that comes from God, they need to be brought to a place where they despair of their own righteousness.

Or(like the rich young ruler)they will not see a need for God's gift even if HE is standing right in front of them.


Quote:
How do you know this? Why did Jesus extend the invitation to sell his riches and give to the poor and follow Him and His disciples?



The man was not ready...all he saw in Jesus was a good master...a teacher. That is why Jesus gave him the law.

In fact, in response to the man's question, "What shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?" Jesus told him to keep the commandments. He did not tell him to sell all that he had UNITL the man responded, "Master, all these have I observed from my youth."

Why didn't Jesus tell him to sell all and follow Him right away?

Selling all and following Christ does not, will not, cannot, save anyone. Selling all and following Christ...offering up my body as a living sacrifice is a response.....WORSHIP IS A RESPONSE...


To the Gospel! The Good News. I will offer my life to Christ as a living sacrifice for Joy!

Quote:
Brother, there are multitudes who have "an understanding" of Jesus' righteousness but have not forsaken all and thus cannot enter in. Multitudes and multitudes



Who? and how do you know this? Enter in to what?

The bible does not talk about an understanding of Christ's righteousness. It talks about trusting in His righteousness alone. And the only people that will trust in Christ's Righteousness alone, are those who have despaired of ever producing a righteousness that can stand before a Holy God.

And that is the purpose of the law in evangelism. To put a spot light on sin, and expose the utter depravity of the human heart.

That's what Jesus was doing.

 2007/6/30 14:53
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Brother, you were the one who mentioned people not having an "understanding" of the cross. I'm not going to turn this into another debate. I think you are missing the point in our discussion. This was never about the attainment or obtainment of salvation, and I actually agree with much of what are saying (to a point).

I think I've said all I could. Maybe we're both misfiring! The Lord bless your studies.

Brother Paul :-)


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/6/30 15:12Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
The bible does not talk about an understanding of Christ's righteousness. It talks about trusting in His righteousness alone. And the only people that will trust in Christ's Righteousness alone, are those who have despaired of ever producing a righteousness that can stand before a Holy God.



I would even say that the majority of what Jesus was teaching while on Earth pointed to this very thing. The Pharisees trusted in a religious righteousness, the Jew trusted in a national righteousness, the gentiles trusted in their own righteousness. Then Jesus comes into the realm of humanity and says, "except your righteousness exceed that of the Scribes and the Pharisees..." Would any have dared to say that theirs did? as they were the epitome of holiness and consecration to God.

Yet Paul makes it very clear in his epistles that primarily his gospel did not come from man, but from the revelation of Christ. What was this "good news"? That "by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified", Paul even spoke of his righteousness as a Pharisee as "dung" compared the righteousness by faith in Christ.

See too many stop prior to the Cross and say, "there's the standard, now live it." But who else could? If Christ only came to show us the way to live a perfect life, why enter as a babe and live perfectly before man and God. Better yet, why even be born God and man? why not simply rebuke and condemn all those who cannot live the moral duties set before them?

Yet the point of the Gospel, the good news, is that He obeyed the Law for us, He died for us, and rose for our justification. His righteousness is ours in both imputation(justification), and impartation(sanctification).
To miss this is tragic, as one will rarely sense peace with God, as all will be based upon their keeping of the Law, or of morals they have ascribed as Christian behaviour.

In all of this, we cannot blot out these words, "come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest for your souls." Of course no man will admit he is weary until God convinces him, but once that poverty is admitted and the remedy applied, Oh what a joyous soul is within!!! But that requires a ceasing from our own righteousnesses which are as filthy rags, and trusting His righteousness which is purely wondrous!


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/6/30 15:12Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Brother, there are multitudes who have "an understanding" of Jesus' righteousness but who have not forsaken all and thus cannot enter in. Now, when I say "all" I do not mean mere physical objects; I'm speaking of the hidden, spiritual things, the invisible powers, unmortified lusts of the flesh that still surge and hold empire over us and prevent us from giving God the utter and total abandonment of our beings.



That's absolutely right. God only imputed, or considers righteous, which is to say, God only forgives the past sins of those who forsake all their sin.

 2007/7/1 0:22









 Re: Forsaken all?

Quote:
Brother, there are multitudes who have "an understanding" of Jesus' righteousness but who have not forsaken all and thus cannot enter in. Now, when I say "all" I do not mean mere physical objects; I'm speaking of the hidden, spiritual things, the invisible powers, unmortified lusts of the flesh that still surge and hold empire over us and prevent us from giving God the utter and total abandonment of our beings.




Have you done this? Has anyone done this? Forsaken all? And if "forsaking all" saves a man, then why did Jesus have to die on a cross?

You might say that Peter and the others forsook all because, in Mark 10, they told Jesus they did.
But if we follow it through we will see that when persecution arose, Peter and the rest actually forsook Jesus, and actually Peter went right back to his old life.

And why do we have to qualify what "forsaking all" means. According to Mark 10 Jesus was talking about forsaking riches, but no, no ,no its not physical objects...its "hidden, spiritual things, the invisible powers, unmortified lusts of the flesh that still surge and hold empire over us."

Well which is it?

Do you know that there is a whole religious group called 12 Tribes, and they state that if an individual does not sell all they have and give it to the poor and then go live in their communities, then that individual is not saved.

They believe in the death, and resurection of Jesus. They read the bible. Is what they say correct. Does an individual have to sell all and give it to the poor in order to be saved?

And if they are not correct, then please tell me why?

 2007/7/1 8:03









 Re:

Only Jesus saves us. But Jesus said he would only save us, if we voluntarily forsake all of our sin and follow him.

Repentance doesn't forgive us, Jesus forgives us. But Jesus only forgives sin upon condition that the sin has been repented of, that is, He only forgives the sins that we turn away from.

There is no forgiveness for present willfull sins. But only for past, repented sins.

And Jesus is worth it. When we really love Jesus, we would be willing to leave any sin behind for Him!! Not selfishly for ourselves, but to please Him!

 2007/7/1 8:15
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
According to Mark 10 Jesus was talking about forsaking riches, but no, no ,no its not physical objects...its "hidden, spiritual things, the invisible powers, unmortified lusts of the flesh that still surge and hold empire over us."



The gloating over physical objects (riches) are evidences of inward lusts. I have a car, and a home, and a computer, and a savings account. But these things do not have me, they do not have my heart. They had the rich young ruler's heart.

Jesus always went straight for the heart; Under the Law of Grace the spiritual supercedes the physical, but for the Mosaic law the outward deeds were judged. Under grace, lusting with eyes is now tantamount to physical adultery, hating someone is now tantamount to murdering them, etc. The Pharisees taught men to write their wives bills of divorce and be done with it - but Jesus said it was adultery, and that whoever married a divorced woman is an adulterer too. He raised the bar! He said unless men's righteousness [i]exceeded[/i] that of the Pharisees, they will not enter into the Kingdom.

The spiritual always supercedes the carnal, the carnal has its roots in the spiritual; in other words, carnal manifestations of sin (sinful deeds of the body) spring from the unseen, unmortified spiritual lusts in our bodies. When Peter forsook the Lord, his fear for self (albeit he still loved Jesus) surfaced as result of the trial (God uses Satan to "sift" us, for such a purpose) and Peter was made aware of it. But Peter had faith in God, and he knew Jesus.

Quote:
Do you know that there is a whole religious group called 12 Tribes, and they state that if an individual does not sell all they have and give it to the poor and then go live in their communities, then that individual is not saved.



Again, we're not talking about salvation. I thought we we're talking about the rich young ruler and his riches versus Christ's righteouness.


Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/7/1 9:25Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Again, we're not talking about salvation. I thought we we're talking about the rich young ruler and his riches versus Christ's righteouness.



If the subject was not salvation, than what was the subject?

Wasn't the rich young ruler inquiring how to obtain eternal life?

 2007/7/1 10:41





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy