SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Sinners must DO something TO BE SAVED!

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re: No Sin Will Enter Heaven

I read a few different questions people have asked, but think that they were answered already in the article.

I would recommend reading the article in it's entirety to get a full understanding of what I am saying.

And if anyone has any questions after reading the full article, feel free to list out those questions for me.

 2007/6/29 0:36
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: God Does Not Accept Sinners As They Are!

Quote:
Nothing can be a more false message, a greater distortion of God, then telling sinners that, “God accepts you as you are” and that “sinners must not do anything to be saved”. That is simply not true! That’s a lie! Jesus did not preach such a god and such a gospel! Jesus said a man must be born again to be acceptable unto God! (John 3:3). Jesus said a sinner must repent or else he would perish! (Luke 13:3) Jesus said only the pure in heart, not the sinful in heart, would see God! (Matt 5:8) Peter did not preach a sinner-accepting-god! Peter said that God resists the proud! Peter said God accepts only the humble! (1Peter 5:5-6) The proud must humble themselves to be accepted by God. Jesus is “the author of eternal salvation” only to “them that obey Him”! (Heb 5:9)


This is a straw man; set up to be knocked down. God accepts a man 'as he is' but not on the basis of 'how he is'. He accepts him on the basis of what Christ has done, not what the man has to do.

The problem with Finney, as I see it and as you express it, is that he really did not believe that 'God justifies the ungodly'.

[color=0000FF]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5 KJVS)[/color]

God accepts us as we are for Christ's sake, BUT he does not leave us 'as we are'. You are confusing, as did Finney, justification with sanctification.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/6/29 1:48Profile









 Re:

The whole point is that a sinner must repent, ie turn from sin, and believe the gospel before God can justify him. A person must turn from sin and trust in Jesus before they can be forgiven.

Turning from sin and trusting in Jesus are the necessary conditions for salvation which is grounded upon Jesus Christ alone.

True evangelism is telling sinners what they must do in order to be saved; true evangelism is telling sinners that they must repent from their sin and put their faith in Jesus Christ.

- God wants everyone to be saved

- Jesus Christ died for everyone

The only thing lacking now is that men must repent and believe.

 2007/6/29 2:29
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
The whole point is that a sinner must repent, ie turn from sin, and believe the gospel before God can justify him.


So you really believe in "justification by repentance and faith"? and you don't believe that God 'justifies the ungodly' you really believe that God only justifies the ungodly if he 'turns from his sin'.

You understand that I am not disputing the need to 'turn from sin', what I am opposing is that you are making 'turning from sin' a necessary qualification. This is not the Bible teaching. Faith must be genuine and genuine faith will ultimately be 'justified' by the change in life which includes 'turning from sin', but if you make 'turning from sin' the pivot you have put the whole focus on man's part.

How does one judge 'turning from sin'? In Finney's theology it seems to mean that if there is any consequent sin the 'justification' is annulled. So the justification is the result of sanctification. The is the fatal folly of Finney's teaching; justification by sanctification.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/6/29 6:31Profile









 Re:

God justifies the ungodly, that repent and believe. God does not justify the ungodly that refuse to repent and believe.

Regarding faith and repentance. Faith requires repentance and repentance requires faith. One cannot exist without the other. Where one exists, the other must exist as well.

This is what I said in my article. (Have you read the full article?)

Quote:
Repentance requires faith, and faith requires repentances, so that one can never exist without the other! Justification without repentance is just as much a fable dream as justification without faith, for both are a vain fantasy, a delusional dream, that will never come to fruition. And these empty dreams leave many spiritually empty, without the blessed salvation of God, without the precious forgiveness of sins!



Quote:
True faith never results in being overcome by the world, being left in sin, but in overcoming the world, having victory over sin! “For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1John 5:4-5) Where there is no overcoming victory there is no faith, but where there is faith there must be overcoming victory.

We are commanded to “add to your faith virtue” (2Pet 1:5) with “diligence” (2Pet 1:10). And “if ye do” this (2Pet 1:10) you “make your calling and election sure”. (1Pet 1:10) For God only elects, or chooses to save those who repent, believe, and persevere unto the end.

We are to never cease in “labors of love” and in “works of faith” (1Thes 1:3, Heb 6:10). Love and faith must accompany one another! (Eph 6:23, 1Tim 1:14, 2Tim 1:13) Faith in the Lord must result in love towards others! (Eph 1:15, Eph 3:17, Col 1:4, Phm 1:5) And if we love one another, we will not sin against one another, (Rom 13:11) for love is the fulfillment of the law. (Rom 13:8, Gal 6:14, James 2:8, 1Tim 1:5) We must be “perfect in love” (1John 4:17-18) and if we are not then we cannot have “boldness in the Day of Judgment.” (1John 4:17) The one who has a “perfect heart (1Kings 8:61, 1Kings 11:4, 1Kings 15:3, 1Kings 15:14, 2Kings 20:3, 1Chron 12:38, 1Chron 28:9, 1Chron 29:9, 2Chron 15:17, 2Chron 16:9, 2Chron 19:9, 2Chron 25:2, Ps 101:2, Isaiah 38:3) is one who has no intention to sin, no plans on sinning, but has been perfected in love. It is only those who are “pure in heart” that “shall see God” and will “ascend the hill of the Lord”. (Ps 24:3-5, Matt 5:8)



Quote:
The saintly A. W. Tozer said, in the 1969 “Gems from Tozer” publication, “Christ’s savior hood is forever united to His lordship. Christ must be Lord or He will not be Savior. To teach that Christ will use His sacred power to further our worldly interests is to wrong our Lord and injure our own souls. We modern evangelicals need to learn the truths of the sovereignty of God and the lordship of Christ. God will not play along with Adam; Christ will not be used by any of Adam’s selfish brood. We had better learn these things fast if this generation of young Christians is to be spared the supreme tragedy of following a Christ who is merely a Christ of convenience and not the true Lord of glory after all.” Pg 12

Again Tozer wrote, “Faith and morals are the two sides of the same coin. Indeed the very essence of faith is moral. Any professed faith in Christ as personal Savior that does not bring the life under plenary obedience to Christ as Lord is inadequate and must betray its victim at the last. The man that believes will obey. God gives faith to the obedient heart only. Where real repentance is, there is obedience. To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.” Pg 25

It is just as heretical to subtract repentance from the gospel as it is heretical to subtract works from faith. Just as faith without works cannot save a single soul (James 2:14), neither can a gospel without repentance save anybody. Faith without works is a dead faith, and a gospel without repentance is a deadly gospel! Take the new birth out of the gospel, and you have no gospel to preach, and your listeners will surely perish!

In his classic, “Alarm to Unconverted Sinners” Joseph Alleine said, “All of Christ is accepted by the sincere convert: he loves not only the wages, but the work of Christ; not only the benefits, but the burden of Christ; he is willing not only to tread out the corn, but to draw under the yoke; he takes up the commands of Christ, yea, the cross of Christ. The unsound convert takes only half of Christ: he is all for the salvation of Christ, but he is not for the sanctification; he is for the privileges, but appropriates not the person of Christ; he divides his offices and benefits of Christ.” Pg 46-47

Again Alleine says, “Should he take men as they are, from the mire of their filthiness to the glory of heaven, the world would think that God was at no such great distance from sin, nor had any such dislike to it as we are told he hath; they would be ready to conclude that God was altogether such a one as themselves” pg 70. And again, “Regeneration and remission are never separated; the unsanctified are unjustified and unpardoned” pg 114. And again, “thou canst not be married to Christ except divorced from sin” Pg 138.

And so repentance must be complete and total, sanctification is a radical crisis experience, a complete renunciation of all sin that must be diligently maintained. Repentance, or sanctification, is not a slow process, but a radical complete and total decision to forsake all sin and to serve God; so the bible proclaims that Christians “are sanctified”! (Acts 20:32, Acts 26:18, 1Cor 1:2, 1Cor 6:11, Heb 2:11, Heb 10:10, Heb 10:14, Jude 1:1)



Quote:
If you want sinners to be d**ned for their rebellion, to have their souls eternally burned under the fierce wrath of the Sovereign in which they have been at war with, tell them that they are to do nothing at all to be saved. And if you tell them to do nothing, and they believe they are to do nothing, and they actually do nothing, you can rest assure that they will not be saved but will be d**ned because of you. (Eze 33:6, 33:8)

But if you want sinners to be saved, to be reconciled to the Lord that they have been sinning against, you must tell them to turn away from all their sinning and to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. How simpler could God have put it? Those who turn will live (Eze 18:21, Eze 18:32, Eze 33:19) those who refuse to turn will die. (Eze 33:11, Rom 6:23, Rom 8:13, Jam 1:15) When witnessing to sinners, repentance must be our aim, for repentance is what is required and needed for their salvation; only impenitence can hold back from salvation those for whom God loves and those for whom Christ died. And so God says we are to “warn them from me” (Eze 33:7), our ministry is to be “warning every man” so that every man may be “perfect in Christ Jesus” (Col 1:28)

The elements for their salvation are all in place, except for one. God is already willing to forgive, Christ has already finished dying for all, making salvation possible for all, now the only thing needed is for them to have true faith, a faith that repents; then and only then will their salvation be secured, then and only then will God our Sovereign choose to pardon their previous crimes and elect them unto salvation.

 2007/6/29 6:43
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Repentance & Faith

Arthur Pink, "Salvation From the Penalty of Sin"

Repentance is the hand releasing those filthy objects
it had previously clung to so tenaciously.
Faith is extending an empty hand to God to receive His gift of grace.

Repentance is a godly sorrow for sin.
Faith is receiving a sinner's Savior.

Repentance is a revulsion of the filth and pollution of sin.
Faith is a seeking of cleansing therefrom.

Repentance is the sinner covering his mouth and crying,
"Unclean, unclean!"

Faith is the leper coming to Christ and saying,
"Lord, if You will, You can make me clean."


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/6/29 7:12Profile









 Re: Peter, Stephen, Paul...They all Preached Christ!

Quote:
True evangelism is telling sinners what they must do in order to be saved; true evangelism is telling sinners that they must repent from their sin and put their faith in Jesus Christ.



On the day of Pentecost and throughout the Book of Acts, Peter and the others, Preached Christ! Look at Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost, its almost like a history lesson for Israel.

In evangelism, these men did not preach repentence, or holiness, or God's Government?, or whatever. It was not complicated. They did exactly what Jesus did with the men on the road to Emmaus.

Quote:
27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.



Jesus preached Himself. The Apostles preached Christ.

Yes, Peter told the men to repent, but that was in response to their question, "Men and Bretheren, What Shall We Do?"

Peter preached Christ, and the Preaching of THAT WORD caused faith to arise in the hearers hearts (Faith comes by hearing the Word of God) and they asked... What Shall We Do?

 2007/6/29 8:02
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 The Ten Commandments of A. Sims

Quote:
I would recommend reading the article in it's entirety to get a full understanding of what I am saying.

And if anyone has any questions after reading the full article, feel free to list out those questions for me.




With no gaps or spaces this article consumes 18.5 pages in a MS word document at a size 12 font. That would be around 30-40 pages in a paperback book. We all have to take it as we are reading it. This is where I am at:


Quote:
In his 1886 edition of, “Bible Salvation and Popular Religion Contrasted,” the Methodist Rev. A. Sims wrote, “True repentance implies a knowledge of sin – sorrow for sin, and confession of it. But its chief characteristic is a turning from sin – from all sin – a turning to God. The person who truly repents, forsakes sin with abhorrence. Every darling idol is cast aside – unsaved associates, bad habits, the cup, the pipe, dishonest dealing, swearing, joking, Sabbath breaking, deceptive language, and the fashions of the world – all are given up. Yes, gospel repentance stops a man from sinning.



So lets list what will damn a soul based on A. Sims salvation philology.

1) Bad habits
2) the cup
3) the pipe
4) dishonest dealing
5) swearing
6) joking
7) sabbath breaking
8) unsaved associates
9) deceptive language
10) fashions of the world

In other words, if I want to call it sin I can declare you going to hell because you don't respond to my personal convictions when I preach. In other words, when I get up and preach my convictions and you don't come and weep in my altars I can declare you unsaved. Away with it ALL!


Lest God had shut my mouth I had declared the teachers of such a doctrine as a devil to his face and anathema upon his head. Wherein does this man venture to SHUT UP the Kingdom of Heaven with such foolish complaints as "the cup, the pipe, joking and the fashions of this world"? Perhaps I should admit I have lived in such a camp and under such teachings all my life. The Cup? What cup? Alcohol or coffee? Coke or pepsi? The pipe? You mean one like C.H. Spurgeon smoked? Sabbath breaking? You mean Saturday, right? Saturday is the Sabbath- not Sunday. Did this man even have a bible? And this is how people are brought into fear and bondage and devilry at the hands of so-called "holiness preachers."

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [u]Ye observe days[/u], and months, and times, and years. [u]I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.[/u] (Galatians 4)

No joking and no wearing of modern clothing? This is repentance? Repentance is when I forsake all unsaved associates?

Everyone listen up here please! This is EXACTLY the type of preaching that the old timers in our camp are desperate to stop from going forth again as they have seen its destruction and hypocrisy. this is why they shut down the doors to the 'repentance preachers'. They will not tolerate another round of this kind of field burning.





_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/6/29 8:40Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 The 'Pipe' as a hindrance to revival?

An Excerpt from Hindrances to Revivals (Part 2).
C.G. Finney

[i]After a mighty struggle in prayer, the "Achan" would be discovered, the sin confessed, and then the work would go on again with power. In a state of feeble health, I was once spending a few weeks in a neighborhood where there was a church without a pastor, and who, when they had preaching, drew upon the funds of the Home Missionary Society for a part of the minister's support. While I was there they obtained the labors of an evangelist, who preached to them from day to day and from week to week without success. He saw and I saw that there was some iniquity in the church that forbade the effectual pouring out of the Spirit upon them. I made inquiry; but could not learn that there was any division in the church or any particular form of known sin covered up among them. But I observed that the meetinghouse was becoming unendurably filthy with tobacco spittle. One day, after sermon, I rose and called the attention of the church to that fact. On inquiry and calculation, I found that that church expended more for tobacco than they did for the support of the Gospel. After dealing with them thoroughly upon this point, a covenant was drawn up, which pledged the signers thereto to abstain wholly from the use of tobacco, and to pay the amount hitherto expended for that article wholly into the treasury of the Lord for the support of the Gospel. The tobacco users, I believe, almost to a man signed this covenant; and thereupon a new spirit immediately pervaded their meetings. There was liberty and power in prayer and preaching, and it was a striking contrast to what had gone before. The Spirit was poured out, and there was every indication of the coming on of a powerful and widespread revival. The floor of the house was cleansed and God was evidently in our midst. This hopeful state of things continued, I should think, for more than a week; when it became apparent that the Spirit was grieved that his agency was withheld. Fears began to be entertained by many of the most wakeful of the church that the brethren were breaking their covenant to abstain from the use of tobacco. The floor of the house continued clean, and, of course, did not justify the fear and suspicion that the covenant was broken. But soon it became so unmistakably evident that there was some "accursed thing" that prevented the work of the Spirit that the question was publicly asked if the brethren were not breaking their covenant with each other and with God. It was soon ascertained that they were, and that they were unwilling to repent and renew their covenant. This was decisive. All hopeful appearances almost immediately vanished, the evangelist left the ground for another field, and the meetings were entirely suspended.[/i]


This is how the convictions of men become the commandments of God. It is a case study. First of all the point is made that more money is spent on Tobacco than Missions. Folk are then asked to make a 'pledge' that they will not do this again. A covenant. A covenant to stop the damnable use of tobacco? Will real sin please stand up? Friend, if all the problem existed in this town was "tobacco use" the preacher had done well to move on anyways.

Understand the strategy. You have to keep bringing the people back over and over again to discover where they are falling short. Once you get them in line with the scriptures- then you take off on these types of things. Why? Because the feeling is- is that revival is when folk are falling down crying out for their sins and in a sense of 'fear' and trepidation. These were not the curious arts in Acts. This is chewing tobacco. Snuff as its called in some parts. And to use 'Achan' as a type of presenting it all?

Achan died for his direct disobedience of God's spoken commandment. did someone rise up in the meeting and give a "THUS SAYS THE LORD... FROM HENCEFORTH MY SPIRIT SHALL DEPART IF ANYONE CHEWS TOBACCO!" If not, then what logical deductions drawn from proof texts were they using to 'create' commandments from thin air? The typical one? YOur not being a good steward of God's money. How dare you buy bubblegum (chewing tobacco) with God's money! We found the Achan.

As if that were not crazy enough- from this point forward Chewing Tobacco is a sin and must be repented of before salvation can happen. This is the madness of preaching personal convictions. If God tells a person to put down their pipe- they need to do it right now! But the preacher is not God and if he/she have to fabricate laws and ordinances to preach on because the people are in line with most all things biblical- then need to leave town. This is how folk come under unnecessary oppressions. Soon salting your food is a sin because you are eating for pleasure. Not kidding here. Eating Ice Cream is a sin because it is not the proper nutrition and the sugar will rot your teeth. :-?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/6/29 9:04Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
God justifies the ungodly, that repent and believe. God does not justify the ungodly that refuse to repent and believe.



Did Abraham repent?
[color=0000FF] And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. (Genesis 15:6 NKJV)[/color]


Jesse Morrell
Quote:
Repentance from sin must come prior to justification (Luke 13:3), or else God justifies the wicked! But he that justifies the wicked is an abomination!



Paul
Quote:
For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, (Romans 4:3-5 NKJV)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/6/29 9:40Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy