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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Infant Baptism: Is it Scriptural?

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Sistren_MML
Member



Joined: 2007/6/24
Posts: 18
Ft. Wayne, IN

 Infant Baptism: Is it Scriptural?

Just curious to know if there is scriptural basis for or against infant baptism.

Mikah and Morgan


_________________
Mikah and Morgan

 2007/6/25 14:11Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re: Infant Baptism: Is it Scriptural?

All depends on your views of Covenants. Many who support infant baptism equate it with circumcision of the old covenant and are sure to teach that just as circumcision did not save a person, neither does baptism.

Here's a link to many articles about this

[url=http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Baptism/]Baptism[/url]


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patrick heaviside

 2007/6/25 15:52Profile









 Re:

Infant baptism is unscriptural.

Baptism is an ordinance to be partaken of after a soul repents and is saved.

How could this possibly apply for infants?

Krispy

 2007/6/25 15:52









 Re:

Quote:

roaringlamb wrote:
All depends on your views of Covenants. Many who support infant baptism equate it with circumcision of the old covenant and are sure to teach that just as circumcision did not save a person, neither does baptism.

Here's a link to many articles about this

[url=http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Baptism/]Baptism[/url]

However, that comparison falls down because most of the early disciples were Jews and had already been circumcised. Many had also gone through John's baptism (as a sign of repentance). But that didn't stop them being baptized as Christians as well!

Jeannette

 2007/6/25 17:53









 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Infant baptism is unscriptural.

Baptism is an ordinance to be partaken of after a soul repents and is saved.

How could this possibly apply for infants?

Krispy

This was why I had to leave the Presbyterian Church.

Although I soon realised that it was actually also a call of God - He used the matter of baptism as a way of getting me out.

The problem is also that many people think, (and some denominations actually teach it as fact), that baptism itself (of infants or otherwise) makes a person a Christian. Which it doesn't.

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/6/25 18:00
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
However, that comparison falls down because most of the early disciples were Jews and had already been circumcised. Many had also gone through John's baptism (as a sign of repentance). But that didn't stop them being baptized as Christians as well!



I never said I was pro or con, just providing info that was asked for, also I think it's important to notice that I said that many who teach infant baptism under the covenant do not equate it to salvation, but simply to circumcision, and like the Jews whowere circumcised must be still be brought to repentance, so must those baptized as infants. Very few Protestant groups believe or teach baptismal regeneration.

I do not see this as a teaching worth splitting over, as I would much rather go to a Presbyterian Church that proclaimed Christ and His great work, than go to a non denominational one that is happy clappy with no mention of Christ. :-)


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/6/25 18:28Profile









 Re:

Quote:

roaringlamb wrote:
Quote:
However, that comparison falls down because most of the early disciples were Jews and had already been circumcised. Many had also gone through John's baptism (as a sign of repentance). But that didn't stop them being baptized as Christians as well!


I never said I was pro or con, just providing info that was asked for,

I know you weren't stating your personal views here, Bro. Lamb. I was just commenting on the information you gave.
Quote:
I think it's important to notice that I said that many who teach infant baptism under the covenant do not equate it to salvation, but simply to circumcision, and like the Jews whowere circumcised must be still be brought to repentance, so must those baptized as infants. Very few Protestant groups believe or teach baptismal regeneration.

I'm not sure about that! I think Anglican (more or less = Episcopalian, and Lutheran?) still have it in their order of service for infant baptism. I know the Welsh Presbyterian Church does, having been connected with it. The only difference is that the service in the book is a suggested order, not a set one.

It clearly says something in the prayer section like, "this child is now a member of Your Church", or "Your child". Implying that the act of baptism has somehow made the child a Christian.

Even though the doctrine of baptismal regeneration probably isn't taught as such, (except in some "high" Anglican churches?) the form of words encourages that idea.
Quote:
I do not see this as a teaching worth splitting over, as I would much rather go to a Presbyterian Church that proclaimed Christ and His great work, than go to a non denominational one that is happy I agree. Personally I wouldn't make a huge issue of it, unless the person who supports infant baptism is clearly not born again, and/or imagines that it makes one a Christian.

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/6/26 18:23
JesusIsMyLrd
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 119
Iowa, USA

 Re:

As we look at Baptism, let's consider a few things:

1. Its Purpose.
2. Its Application, Scripturaly.


1. Its purpose is (and this will be contraversial, i'm sure, but this is how i can see my way clear on it through God's Word...) this: It is an outward ordinance instituting an outward show of an inward reality- that is, one of being dead to the world, and alive to Christ. That is why it is refered to in many congregations as a "believer's" baptism.

2. It's application in Scripture: There are no instances in scripture saying that infants were baptised, only those who were converted (don't confuse a believer's baptism with the baptism of John, too. ;-) ) It appears that only those who repented of their sins, and belived on the Lord Jesus, were baptised. Peter (in his first encounter with the gentiles recieving God's Word) didn't say, "Hey guys, you all should be baptised before you hear this..." or anything like that. It was on the conversion of their hearts, and the anointing of the Holy Ghost (and by this we see that you don't need to be baptised outwardly in order to be converted, baptism is an ordinance therefore, not part of the steps to salvation... more a step to sanctification...) that he had them baptised (See Acts 10:3-48 for the context). It was an outward show of an inward reality, as i would see it.


So, seeing these things, i think we would be safe to say that infant baptism is not biblical, since infants have not the knowledge of sin yet, and therefore need no conversion.

This is a good thing to discuss, because i have heard of many people saying that "well, I was baptised when i was a baby, isn't that good enough?"

It is a matter of life or death, depending on how seriously the person that was baptised takes it... if you know what i mean.

God bless you all.

All for Jesus, Jesus for all,
-nathan


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Nathan

 2007/6/26 22:17Profile









 Re:

The youngest person I ever saw baptized as a believer was a nine year old boy. But an old lady missionary I used to know came to Christ when she was 6; although I don't know if her parents allowed her to be baptized so young.

Baptism isn't appropriate unless a person has believed in the Lord. Although It's perfectly possible for an earnest seeker (not a baby!) to actually receive the Lord upon, or soon after baptism, as happened in Acts. Just that it's not the effect of the water but of the Holy Spirit responding to the person's declaration of faith.

Then of course, there's the issue of sprinkling vs dipping. Full immersion is, I believe, more appropriate to the meaning of baptism. But is it essential???

Another thought: Do you think that a baby may already have received the Lord at that young age? John Baptist himself was filled with the Spirit before he was even born! (at 6 months gestation - when Mary came to visit Elizabeth). I think it's possible, because the spirit of a person is aware of spiritual things - and able to respond even when the mind is unable to grasp things.

But how would we know if the baby had believed until he could talk!

So infant baptism is still not appropriate until a child is able to make known his faith.

Just a few thoughts!


Jeannette

 2007/6/29 15:09
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I'm not sure about that! I think Anglican (more or less = Episcopalian, and Lutheran?) still have it in their order of service for infant baptism. I know the Welsh Presbyterian Church does, having been connected with it. The only difference is that the service in the book is a suggested order, not a set one.

It clearly says something in the prayer section like, "this child is now a member of Your Church", or "Your child". Implying that the act of baptism has somehow made the child a Christian.

Even though the doctrine of baptismal regeneration probably isn't taught as such, (except in some "high" Anglican churches?) the form of words encourages that idea.


The Anglican theology has always been in a state of tension. The Anglical church was designed to be a compromise between Catholicism and the Reformers. Consequently it has a Reformed Theology but a Catholic Liturgy. The theology (the 39 articles) are pretty solidly reformed and refer to baptism only as a sign, but the liturgy identifies a newly baptised infant as having become part of the body of Christ.

I am strongly for repentant-believers baptism but there have been some wondeful saints who embraced infact baptism; Andrew Murray was one. Some rejected baptism altogether like the Quakers and the Salvation Army.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/6/29 15:54Profile





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