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Jeff Mollman

May I repeat again that my intensions where not to discurage or contradict anybody here.I wrote this thinking that it would benefit, I know I did not express myself as I should have. I'm a 17 year-old boy that Loves God and want to serve him for the rest of my life. Thank you all for the feedback on the post. Please asept my apologies if I may have seem to cause strife between us.

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Samuel

dear running2win,

thank you for your post. i guess my question to you is what do you believe happens at conversion concerning the Holy Spirit?? the reason i ask is because i've been to quite a few churches that say that they believe the Holy Spirit indwells the believer at conversion, but then act as if the Holy Spirit is not really indwelling that person until they have a huge experience like speaking in tongues, etc.

many godly men have had experiences after confession that felt like they've been deepened in their walk (moody, finney), but it's not like they weren't in the faith, ya know..
just asking.. well thanks for writing..

Helo LiveforGod,

Pentecostal/charismatic movement speaking in general has put much emphases on the gifts and power ,while neglecting somehow the cross, the fruits of the Spirit, and this has lead to much delusion and counterfeit.But i think you go to far when considering it as a whole anti-biblical.

let me speak from my experience, i was converted in 1991 when i was living in Albania and if it was not for those american charismatic missionatries, especially one who lead be to Christ, i would have been lost forever and damned in hell.It was December 24th, 1991 (i was 18 yrs old) that i helped my freind to still a car windshield, next day a man talked about Jesus with me and i restituted to him the windshield and the Dec 26th I and the other man went to capital of albania to resitute the windshield to the american missionaries and it was there that after i heard clearly the gosple, one of the missionaries (a godly man) lead to to Christ and i repented of my sins and believed Jesus as my Lord & Saviour and i was born again. What a happy day i can never forget,i was free,because Jesus set me free.

I share my testimony because i want to help not to consider as counterfeit everything that goes on in pentecostal/charismatic movement.

I'm not a charismatic any more, and i can be as much fundamental evangelical as you may guess, but my dear freind i will be greatful to God for eternity that He send these charismatic missionaries to be intrumental to lead me to the Saviour.

I know that there is much emotionalism in the movement and that much counterfeit is mistaken for The genuine experiences of the Holy Ghost, and that many charismatic preachers are leading many people to the apostasy of the last days.

If there are far more tares then wheat it doesnt mean the movement is all a counterfeit, far be it from me dare say such a thing. I believe in pentecostal/charismatic movement there are hundreds and thousands saved or being saved but the confusion the devil is stiring in the movement and the counterfeit experiences that prevail so much that many charismatic preacher promote are doing much harm to the children of God.

It's sad that so much spiritual discerment is lacking among believers today, i better wished to be on fire and zelous for the Lord as i was when i was in that small charismatic church years ago, then be so cold as i am now,even though much experiece and knowledge made me wiser.

I made many mistakes when i was a yound believer but i was alive and on fire, and it was about that time that i read Tozer or Ravenhill and many other men of God, that ispired me to pray for revival and the glory of God.

Blessings,
Redi

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Redi

Thank you (Elected).

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Samuel

dear elected,

thank you for sharing that post..i believe you hit the nail on the head when you said that there is much empahasis on the gifts of the Spirit and a lack of hunger and preaching on the cross..i don't want to generalize that, but i know in my experience, such is the case..

again, thanks elected..that was good stuff.

Lovehim you are welcome, i just shared the little bit of knowledge from experience relating to the movement.I myself dont consider it as a movement born out of revival as many pentecostal would like to say,but i believe it to be more a renewal at its best.

Compared with the classical revivals and evangelical movements of the past, the pentecostal/charismatic movement put the amphesis on power,gifts,miracles,healings,ect., so that the much needed graces of repentace,purity,holiness and the centrality of the cross became less and less emphasied or experienced.

Confusion and disorder are traits that have accompanied the movement almost from the beginning.It is the movement that has been more intrumental then anyother one in the evangelization of the world, but at the same time most reponsible then anyother movement that has lead God's children in spiritual carnality and what's worse spirituall delusion.

The question is not on personal level, because there is no doubt about the authenticity of many pentecostal/charismatic christians but the question is how genuine has been and is the pentecostal movement?

Was it like a resounding gong and clanging symbal that produced little holy fruits and holinness but that majored mostly on the counterfeits?
I am not puting to question the authentic convertions or many dearly loved saints of God who have been and are part of it but trying to discern the true nature and fruits of the movement as a whole.Those millions who claim to be baptized or filed with the Holy Spirit but who dont show any radical moral transformation or peaceful fruit, if this is true then the spirit who filled them isnt holy at all.

blessings,

Redi

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Redi

the charismatic movement that i know of back in the 70s was a truly gloryous time. the Holy Spirit was poured out on Gods people worldwide.I got saved in 1977 and it was in a charasmatic church. Some had the baptism of the Holy Spirit and some did not. We had an awesome pastor who taught us Gods Word.To this day I have never been in a church that has the level of worship that I experienced at that church.three months after I got saved I recieved the baptism of the Holy Ghost. I will never forget it as long as I live. I believe there is nothing more life changing to the believer than the baptism of the Holy GHost.I have been both blessed and appalled by the believerss of this forum . It almost seems like there is an underlying hatred against anyone operating in the gifts. In my 30 years as a christian I only saw this once before and that was at the Brownsville revival. A church across town trained their members to attack us.They thought they were Gods little army and we were the ones under deception! Where does it say in the bible "The letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life" ?......David

Blessed is the man that goeth not in counsel of the ungodly, for he shalbe as a tree planted by the water side, and God alloweth the way of the righteous but the way of the ungodly shal perysh.

Don't these preachers have such a light in them that is darkness? What about the bondage of debt and the false signs & wondres.
Try working a miracle with your hands, when you purely walk with the congregation.
Never let fear go beyond your stomack, just beware of men, for they shal deliver you up to councils, and such swine are filled with voluptous living.

JOhn 9:39-41 Tyndale version with 1526 english
39 ¶ Iesus said: I am come unto judgement, into this world: that they which see not, might see, and they which see might be made blind.
40 And some of the pharises which were with him, heard these words and said unto him: Are we then blind?
41 Iesus said unto them, if ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say we see, therefore your sin remaineth.

Hope you want to hear my voice and not going to say a whole lot about the death and hell doctrine along with holy ghost hands baptism after repentaunce of named sinnes.
Did Paul not admit he was a vile sinner, and that under the law he knew of sin, yet couldnot find in his flesh how not to do it.
The Chrimatic group is nothing but naturall and having no spirit, these are makers of sects.

This is not a strange foreign doctrine but it containeth both health and salvation

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Terry L Merritt