SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What if Israel had obeyed god?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 )

 Re: What if Israel had obeyed god?

Hi daniel-

Just a few thoughts on your topic, though not very focused on your specific questions.

At the back of my mind always, is that God promised the Saviour to Eve, first. This is the context within which He invited Abram to obey Him, later changed his name to Abraham, Sarai's to Sarah and Jacob's to Israel.

I have no doubt at all that the picture of smoke and fire on Mount Sinai when the law was being given to Moses, (where mountains denote authority or headship) is enacted for real when the Holy Spirit appears like flames of fire on the disciples' heads.

Paul's thesis of how the whole world's inhabitants have been concluded under sin, that God may have mercy on them all, and that Abraham is the father of faith dating from before his circumcision, are all aspects of the promises in scripture, if God's word is to be heard with ears of understanding.

I have been thinking about the role of the children of Israel in all this, and how many more than they are now known as 'Jews', and have concluded that they were chosen by God to exemplify a whole range of human behaviour, to which no gentile can claim to be totally immune. In this respect, with the eyes of the world on them and their laws, Jesus had to be Jewish, to demonstrate openly an end to whatever was wrong with human nature.

From the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in Eden, to the children of Israel [i]all[/i] finding themselves in Egypt where they would learn about external idolatry as never before, to their incomplete possession of the land when they returned to it, we see that God set them up to demonstrate that even with all His help, His power and pleadings, they needed a Saviour too, that the inner change of heart God desired, could be theirs first.

Annie brought out a verse I didn't know existed, in her post above:

Jer 33
24 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.
25 Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and [b]if[/b] I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
26[b] Then[/b] will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed [b]to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob[/b]: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

These verse are a bit tricky because of the figure of speech which is being used to emphasise God's intention, but I pick it out because it has an interesting circle in it, of Jacob's seed through David being chosen to reign over Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's seed.

This sounds a bit like 'The Lord said unto my Lord...'

This also appears to make the seed of David higher than the seed of Jacob (Israel) - the elder (flesh) serving the younger (spirit), David being 'a man after' God's 'heart'.


So, is this 'replacement theology' or not? :-?

EDIT end


 2007/6/7 5:11


excellent question. more excellent for the bravery you showed in asking it here, for i have tons like yours(and one of them was what you asked) that i dare not utter for the's always interesting to me that Israel was to be example to the surrounding area in being Holy to the Lord. One of the most intriguing thing i found about the exodus from egypt is that there is really no word about what the effect was upon the surrounding area, until you get to the books Numbers and Deutronomy and Joshua. i will give a tease question, which i believe is behind the question you raised, what's the role of Satan in the temptation of Eve? could she have taken the fruit to eat it without first ever being cajoled by the serpent? and from that question, i at leat have 3 other questions that arise in my mind

 2007/6/7 6:24

Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: What if Israel had obeyed god?


Israel was warned that if they did not repent that they would be sent into captivity and they were. A remnant was restored to the land as friends of God and the holder of the promise that they were chosen to bring forth the Messiah. They again took their birthright lightly and rejected the chance to be frist to except the Christ. But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked and did not come to the wedding feast so God rejected them or reprobated them because of their own worthlessness (Jer. 6:all; Heb. 6:7-8 rejected because they failed to make use of opportunities offered them (1 Cor. 9:27; 2 Cor. 13:5-7).

The only time I can recall that Israel reached out to another nation when they were not in captivity themselves was when with great reluctance Jonah went too the people of Nineveh and warned them to repent. They only fed the spiritual scrapes of their tables to the Gentile nations that they refered to as being dogs and only gave them dredges to drink.

To day all them of a broken spirit and a contrite spirit are invited whether they are Jew, Greek or Gentile. But the Jews will be rejected if they don’t wear a wedding garment cleansed pure white by the cleansing blood of their Christ and ours the Prince of Peace.

We as Christians or Jews know:

Nahum 1
The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked, the Lord hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers. Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth. The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.



 2007/6/7 7:18Profile

Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy