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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : World Judgement & Satan

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 Re:

Quote:
Jaysaved said: I have never considered 1948 as being the year Satan was loosed. Other than the establishment of Israel, why would you believe that 1948 was the year? Please give reasons:

Just speculating, thinking...

 2007/6/4 20:13









 Re:

Quote:
Corey Said: Brother, I know I'm outspoken, and crass at times, but I've been trying to identify the beast, the whore, etc, etc, for over a decade-and-a-half. Since I was baptised in fire last year (still am, I think), I've been trying to determine whether I'm pre-trib, post-trib, a-trib, etc... and you know what I've discovered? They're all sensational, sensual, worldly doctrines of men.

And I agree with you. I hold to a partial preterist view (NOT A FULL preterist). There is a coming of the LORD (not neccesarily 'second') and there is a resurrection. The only reason why I hold to these two events being still future is because there is no scriptures to prove that they already happened.

In my other life, so to speak, I was a Post Tribber. But Daniel 9:27 didn't set well with me and thats the only place that the "tribbers" get their 7 years from.

Quote:
When is this world going to be judged? "[b]Now[/b] is the judgement of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." (JOHN 12:31-32)

You had said that Satan was cast out at Calvary, but Jesus said 'Now' for Satan, but He also said, 'Now' for the judgement of the world. He says 'NOW' for both events, but your placing one at Calvary, and the other way of into the future, but He put both of them in the 'NOW' catagory.

What think ye??

by the way, I don't mind the crass, just be reasonable and biblical and your fine with me. ;-)

 2007/6/4 20:28









 Re:

Quote:
You had said that Satan was cast out at Calvary, but Jesus said 'Now' for Satan, but He also said, 'Now' for the judgement of the world. He says 'NOW' for both events, but your placing one at Calvary, and the other way of into the future, but He put both of them in the 'NOW' catagory.



Judgement happened, happens, and will happen. It begins at Genesis and ends at Revelation. It happens when you steal a pen and feel bad - and it happens after death if you don't repent and give that pen back (or at least stop stealing stuff). It happens when you commit adultery and get an STD, or caught, or both - and it happens again after death if you don't repent and stop your wicked ways.

This "second judgement" is what I think leads to the "second death". You coninue to sin here, you will eventually suffer here. You unrepentently continue to sin and then die, you are irredeemably wicked and cast into the lake of fire.

Now, our Lord said, "the kingdom of heaven is within you". He also likened it to a long lost gem found again, like a small amount of leaven that enlarges bread, like the smallest of seeds that becomes the greatest of trees.

He said many are called to be citizens of this "kingdom", but few are chosen.

He said the kingdom doesn't "come by observation".

So if the kingdom's already in us, we [b]are[/b] reigning with Christ.

So what are the whatever-tribbers waiting for?

Pre-tribbers believe Jesus is going to appear (Second Coming) before the Tribulation and will "rapture" all Christians into the clouds. Then He will appear again after the Tribulation (3rd Coming) to blow the antichrist and his followers to smithereens. Then He will raise the dead and reign on earth for exactly 1000 years - then he'll leave, Satan will be released just one more time - and He'll return yet again (Forth Coming)... And I'm sure he'll keep leaving and returning with each new installment of the "Left Behind" series.

Post-tribbers, from what I gather, formulated their doctrines during the advent of the technological age. Another word for post-tribbers is "dominionists" - they believe Christianity and technology will result, after the Tribulation, in a utopian , righteous, world - and that Christ will reappear to rule for a literal thousand years only when we get our act together.

I'm not sure if pre/post-millenialist is the same or different than pre/post-trib (and not sure if I want to know).

But every doctrine I've read on the subject is carnal, carnal, carnal.

I'm of the opinion that since I'm the Temple of God, the kingdom of heaven is within me, the Holy Ghost is teaching me to pray, Jesus is answering my prayers, and that I'm communing with the Living God... That the kingdom is [b]now[/b], the Millenium of Grace is now. When the gospel is preached to the last nation or tribe on earth, and everyone's been warned, and no one has an excuse for not believing in Jesus and doing what He says... then the end of the earth will come by fire.

Then the dead are raised, judged, and rewarded or punished.

Then the Almighty will create a New Heaven and New Earth, and His Faithful will dwell in New Jerusalem FOREVER.

That's my interpretation. I'm probably wrong on one or more points. Ask me for scripture if you need anything clarified - I have to go cook now >;')

 2007/6/4 21:32
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Question for Jay

Question for JaySaved:

Quote:
Clearly, Jesus has first bound the "strong man" before he spoiled his "house". Satan is not destroyed yet, but he does not have the power he once wielded...he is in essence bound.



This incited some thought in me. Would you care to elaborate on what power He may have lost? It seems like there is more sin than ever (not just seems, but looking at the scale of wars, the widespread world crime that has undeniably grown...)

Appreciate it,

 2007/6/5 0:08Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re: Question for Jay

I wrote:

Quote:
Clearly, Jesus has first bound the "strong man" before he spoiled his "house". Satan is not destroyed yet, but he does not have the power he once wielded...he is in essence bound.



theopenlife replied:
Quote:
This incited some thought in me. Would you care to elaborate on what power He may have lost? It seems like there is more sin than ever (not just seems, but looking at the scale of wars, the widespread world crime that has undeniably grown...)
Appreciate it,



Gladly, the reason I believe Jesus (in the bind the strong man discourse) is talking about Satan being bound is because Jesus clearly says that He casts out Satan because He is in opposition to Satan...then He says "You cannot plunder the strong man's house until he is first bound."

Why do I believe Satan is currently bound?

Revelation 20 (emphasis mine)
1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, [b]so that he might not deceive the nations any longer[/b], until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

The reason for Satan being bound is so that he might not deceive the nations any longer. This tells us that he has been previously deceiving the nations.

Compare this to Matthew 28
16Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Jesus gives a new command, "Go into the nations." Before this, the gospel was almost exclusively to the Jew only. But with Jesus' work on the cross, salvation is not available to all nations.

So we have Jesus giving a new command to spread the message of reconciliation to the nations. At the same time, Satan is no longer deceiving the nations and therefore the gospel is spreading. The work of Christ on this earth bound Satan.

But earlier you brought up a very good point:
Quote:
It seems like there is more sin than ever (not just seems, but looking at the scale of wars, the widespread world crime that has undeniably grown...)



It is true that there is much sin in this world. We must remember that Satan is not dead, but is bound. He can still operate, just not with the same power as he has had in the past...that is until he is unbound.

I hope this helps, I am still processing all of this as well. God Bless.

 2007/6/6 21:05Profile









 Re: When ?

The key to understanding Scripture is to realize that it was not written in segments as we post segments.

There were no Chapter Numbers nor Verse Numbers.

You cannot take a few verses and make Doctrine out of them.

We cannot post Rev. 20 at all without the whole of Chpt. 19 attached to all of 20. It's ONE dialoge.

Notice how chpt. 20 starts with a conjunctive.
So even that would tell us it's connected to the last verse of Chpt 19.

This is the answer to both questions or all. Just read those two chpt.s as they are written.
Don't chop that book up. It's got a warning at the end.

 2007/6/6 21:29





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