| Poster | Thread |
| | World Judgement & Satan | | I wish and I keep wishing that I could all be like the rest of you concerning eschatology. I wish that I could go back to my "Post Tribulation" stance and we'd all have fellowship talking about things we know very little about. And if what I believe to be true today is error, then I am very miserable.
Now I am fully aware of the things around us, what's on the news, whats happening in the world, even locally. Does impending war mean that Jesus Christ is soon to return? Certainly not, we've had thousands of wars down through the ages, what makes this day any different? It would all seem that something is ahead of us, and I am not blind to that, something is certainly coming, and hopefully one of those things is a revival, but also there is going to be economic chaos. But does that mean that Jesus Christ is returning on account of that? There have been revivals in the past, there have been economic crashes before, does that bring Jesus Christ out of the sky?
My questions are these:
When is this world going to be judged?
When is Satan going to be thrown out?
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|  2007/6/1 6:57 | | JaySaved
Member
Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri
| | Re: World Judgement & Satan | | Quote:
When is Satan going to be thrown out?
John 12:30-32 (KJV) gives the impression that Satan was cast out when Jesus was crucified.
30Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
John 14:29-31 (KJV) could be taken to mean that Satan is coming into the world (But he was already in the world.) I believe Jesus' intent in these verses was to link the betrayal of Judas with the work of Satan.
29And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
30Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
31But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
However, Ephesians 2:2 clearly tells us that their is a spirit of disobedience at work in our present age.
"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"
In my reading of scripture, it seems apparent to me that Satan is currently bound, but is still able to operate in a limited capacity. He bound "that he should deceive the nations no more," (Rev 20) 1 John 4:4 tells us "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world."
The reason I believe Satan is currently bound is because of what Jesus says in Mark 3 (also told in Matthew)
23And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
Clearly, Jesus has first bound the "strong man" before he spoiled his "house". Satan is not destroyed yet, but he does not have the power he once wielded...he is in essence bound. |
| | 2007/6/1 10:45 | Profile | JaySaved
Member
Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri
| | Re: World Judgement & Satan | | Quote:
When is this world going to be judged?
When Jesus returns on March 31, 2020. (Just kidding!)
But seriously, the world will be judged when Jesus returns.
2 Thess. 1 says,
7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. " |
| | 2007/6/1 10:49 | Profile | rowdy2
Member
Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA
| | Re: World Judgement & Satan | | Reply
World Judgement & Satan
I believe that no one can be saved unless our Heavenly Father first gives us to Jesus and Satan is bound and no longer lord over us. We are still tempted by the desires of our flesh bodies and the protective armor we are to put on or all spiritual, for the spiritual battles we wage is with our flesh, not some man in red underwear. When you step out and walk in faith you yourself as part of the body of Christ condemn this world.
Romans 8
1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Eddie .
_________________
Eddie
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| | 2007/6/1 11:23 | Profile | HopePurifies
Member
Joined: 2007/4/12
Posts: 181
Georgia, USA
| | Re: World Judgement & Satan | | Eh, I wouldn't give a penny for a stance. If they help you organize your thoughts and tell someone else paragraphs of in formation about what you believe with one word- then use the stance. But otherwise, always be open to what the Word tells you.
I'm looking into an eschatological argument that's been newly codified. It's called Progressive Dispensationalism. I think it's pretty neat. I don't really have any good links on it.
Nothing brings "Jesus Christ out of the sky". The Father decides when He comes. There will be birth pains at that time, deception, wars, natural disasters, but they don't necessitate the return of Christ.
Other posters answered your question well. The world will be judged when Jesus comes back. The satan thing is less decisive. We know that right now he works in the sons of disobedience, and when the world is judged, they go in the pit along with satan. So that's when he'll be put in hell.
_________________
Melanie
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| | 2007/6/2 3:45 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
jaysaved said: Clearly, Jesus has first bound the "strong man" before he spoiled his "house". Satan is not destroyed yet, but he does not have the power he once wielded...he is in essence bound.
If he is bound, would that be the same binding as in Revelations?Quote:
Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
If that is your argument would you say that Satan was loosed (lets say around 1948) and is out to decieve the nations again?
Interesting so far :-) |
| | 2007/6/2 8:41 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
jaysaved said: But seriously, the world will be judged when Jesus returns.
You know, I would readily accept this, but the time statement in which Jesus says about this world being judged negates your statement (not just yours but all who hold to it)Quote:
John 12:31 [b]Now[/b] is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
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| | 2007/6/2 8:53 | |
| | Re: World Judgement & Satan | | Quote:
Compliments wrote:
I wish and I keep wishing that I could all be like the rest of you concerning eschatology. I wish that I could go back to my "Post Tribulation" stance and we'd all have fellowship talking about things we know very little about. And if what I believe to be true today is error, then I am very miserable.
Dear Bro. Compliments
Please don't be too miserable because of this. We can still have fellowship.
I for one have found you very gracious and tender-hearted even when we disagree. The love of Christ shines through you, and you are surely a very very highly valued member of SI.
There seem to be a huge variety of views re eschatology and other topics. On things like the Millennium the Tribulation and the Rapture, I tend to sit on the fence, or come off on one side or the other only very cautiously. The Bible isn't a nice cut-and-dried book of instructions and clear descriptions of exactly what will happen and how or when - it's [i][b]the Word of God[/b][/i]! And, when illuminated by the Spirit, it is living and active, not like dead words on a dead page. Each chapter and verse has multitudes of subtleties and layers and levels of meaning - eschatology more than most. How can we all agree or understand the whole of even the smallest topic? We can get a general idea, on what we really need to know, that is all.
To really understand the spiritual meaning of events as they happen we have to be in the Spirit. And even then the Lord may choose not to reveal that particular thing. But we can be sure that, if we are open to Him, He will show us what we need to know, when we need to know it.
Quote:
Now I am fully aware of the things around us, what's on the news, whats happening in the world, even locally. Does impending war mean that Jesus Christ is soon to return? Certainly not, we've had thousands of wars down through the ages, what makes this day any different? It would all seem that something is ahead of us, and I am not blind to that, something is certainly coming, and hopefully one of those things is a revival, but also there is going to be economic chaos. But does that mean that Jesus Christ is returning on account of that? There have been revivals in the past, there have been economic crashes before, does that bring Jesus Christ out of the sky?
You are right. And yet... There does seem to be a sense that this time things are [i]really[/i] drawing near to what the Bible calls "the end of the age", when Jesus will return, and there will be a new heaven and a new earth.
Quote:
My questions are these:
When is this world going to be judged?
When is Satan going to be thrown out?
I think the world was judged, is being judged, and will be (finally) judged. And that Satan was cast out, is being cast out and will be (finally) cast out.
For example, before the Crucifixion and that particular victory over Satan, Jesus said, "I SAW, (past tense) Satan as lightening fall from heaven" (Luke 10:18).
Don't know if that helps but please don't be too discouraged.
I have sometimes felt a little bit isolated too, by feeling I believe differently from most others on SI on certain subjects. Even this lovely forum and site is not really a spiritual "home" where I can feel wholly comfortable with everyone.
And yet, we are in Him, and one in Him - that's a fact, however we feel, and that's what matters.
Bless you, Brother, for your honesty and grace.
Jeannette
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| | 2007/6/2 16:25 | | JaySaved
Member
Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
If he is bound, would that be the same binding as in Revelations?
I believe so. However, I am a loose Amillenalist
Quote:
If that is your argument would you say that Satan was loosed (lets say around 1948) and is out to decieve the nations again?
I have never considered 1948 as being the year Satan was loosed. Other than the establishment of Israel, why would you believe that 1948 was the year? Please give reasons:
Thanks |
| | 2007/6/4 10:08 | Profile |
| | Re: World Judgement & Satan | | Compliments asked Quote:
When is Satan going to be thrown out?
He was cast out at Calvary.
"Now is the judgement of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." (JOHN 12:31-32)
Quote:
When is this world going to be judged?
After the Gospel is preached (not necessarily printed) in every nation nation.
"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (MATT 24:14)
Brother, I know I'm outspoken, and crass at times, but I've been trying to identify the beast, the whore, etc, etc, for over a decade-and-a-half. Since I was baptised in fire last year (still am, I think), I've been trying to determine whether I'm pre-trib, post-trib, a-trib, etc... and you know what I've discovered? They're all sensational, sensual, worldly doctrines of men.
The more popular the doctrine, the more sure I am it's wrong. The more popular the preacher, the less I trust him. The more the world likes us, the less we are like God.
Stick to scripture. Pray. Ask Jesus. He'll teach you what you need to know when you need to know it.
"Thus saith the LORD; Cursed [be] the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD." (JER 17:5)
"Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men." (MARK 7:7)
"If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book." (REV 22:18) |
| | 2007/6/4 18:53 | |
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