| Poster | Thread | Ignitemysoul
Member
Joined: 2006/1/12
Posts: 43
Appleton
| | Apostolic Church | | Does anyone have any knowlege on the Apostolic church. A local pastor that was a customer of mine at work has invited me to do some one on one mentoring with me, but I am not familure with their doctrine or movement. Well I have learned that they are penticostal, born out of the welsh revival. Any help would be great!
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Jon De Vet
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|  2007/5/30 15:53 | Profile | KingJimmy
Member
Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC
| | Re: Apostolic Church | | There are a lot of churches out there that go under the banner of being an "Apostolic Church." You are probably interacting with a pastor from a oneness-pentecostal church, which denies things such as the Trinity, and believes that speaking in tongues is the evidence of salvation, etc.
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Jimmy H
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| | 2007/5/30 15:58 | Profile |
| | Re: | | ...which are obviously false doctrines. If this is what they are, stay away.
Krispy |
| | 2007/5/30 16:53 | | JoeA
Member
Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 364
Decatur, Illinois
| | Re: Apostolic Church | | I was raised in an Apostolic Church. I don't attend one now, but you will be hard pressed to find a denomination that is more devoted to personal holiness and vibrant worship. Say what you will, but they are people who truly love God.
Quote:
believes that speaking in tongues is the evidence of salvation
They believe that speaking in tongues is the evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost, not salvation.
Their main divergence with mainstream Christianity is their view of the Godhead, which, in reality is not much different than the view of your average Church-goer who has not intensely studied theology.
EDIT: Not trying to campaign for them, just stating what I have known from experience. Just stick close to the Word, and seeking Jesus.
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Joe Auvil
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| | 2007/5/30 18:15 | Profile |
| | Re: Apostolic Church | | Quote:
Ignitemysoul wrote:
Does anyone have any knowlege on the Apostolic church. A local pastor that was a customer of mine at work has invited me to do some one on one mentoring with me, but I am not familure with their doctrine or movement. Well I have learned that they are penticostal, born out of the welsh revival. Any help would be great!
Hi
You don't say what area you are from, or even what country, (never heard of Appleton!), so I don't know if the Apostolic churches in your area are at all like the ones here in Wales.
The Apostolic churches I know are very similar to other traditional Pentecostal denominations, such as AOG and Elim. Their beliefs are basically mainstream, no doctrinal errors such as has been mentioned.
Their main differences from other Pentecostal denominations seem to be in church organisation, and what they call the "apostolic vision". Apparently the founder(s) had a "revelation" of the ministries in Ephesians 4; that the church should have apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers etc. And especially that the apostle and prophet work very closely together in ministry.
At least that's my understanding of it. The local churches are organised on that basis. Each leader is designated by one of those ministries. Although anyone is usually permitted to prophesy in meetings, the designated prophet is expected to give directional guidance on important matters, through a prophetic word, and no-one is called into office unless the prophet calls him by name to that work. For example, if you knew that God was calling you as an evangelist, you probably wouldn't be allowed to have an evangelistic campaign unless you were an "official" evangelist.
At least I think that's how they operate.
They tend to be rather insular (rather like the Plymouth Brethren are, although with very different church organistaion and practice of course). Many members were born and brought up in the denomination and often seem to have little contact with other churches, because all the meeting and teaching they need is provided within the denomination.
I used to know quite a few Apostolics, and sometimes went to their meetings. An Apostolic Pastor I was friendly with, when in the Presbyterian church, gave me a book about their history. It kept going on about this "apostolic vision" and how it was superior to the way other churches did things. I got rather fed up with it.
When I returned it the pastor asked how I liked it. Trying to be tactful (I thought it was dreadful!) I said "It's a bit denominational". He looked so disappointed at even that mild criticism! He obviously thought the book would "convert" me to realising how wonderful and superior the Apostolic revelation was!
Blessings
Jeannette |
| | 2007/5/30 18:27 | |
| | Re: | | King Jimmie is right on target.
I've been to their meetings (unknowingly cuz they like to hide the Jesus Only stuff and Baptism in His Name Only and Tongues necessary for Salvation as long as they can)
I made friends with some on line and they invited me to their forum to debate the Trinity.
Just to give you a taste of what the official Apostolic Forum/Beliefs are ....
http://godplace.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=3a158f5acb07d613691f8a57d2c38dae&topic=24194.0
(Sorry - I need to re-learn how to post URLs)
Nothing but sound doctrine should attract us to a group. The Mormons get slain in the "spirit" and are very loving too.
God doesn't take too kindly to the remaking of His Gospel/the 'way' to Salvation nor HIS Triune Nature changed.
Signs and wonders and "niceness" is not how a fellowship should be judged ... and even all the more in these days. |
| | 2007/5/30 18:51 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
GrannieAnnie wrote:
King Jimmie is right on target.
I've been to their meetings (unknowingly cuz they like to hide the Jesus Only stuff and Baptism in His Name Only and Tongues necessary for Salvation as long as they can)
I made friends with some on line and they invited me to their forum to debate the Trinity.
Just to give you a taste of what the official Apostolic Forum/Beliefs are ....
http://godplace.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=3a158f5acb07d613691f8a57d2c38dae&topic=24194.0
(Sorry - I need to re-learn how to post URLs)
Nothing but sound doctrine should attract us to a group. The Mormons get slain in the "spirit" and are very loving too.
God doesn't take too kindly to the remaking of His Gospel/the 'way' to Salvation nor HIS Triune Nature changed.
Signs and wonders and "niceness" is not how a fellowship should be judged ... and even all the more in these days.
It sounds as if they're nothing like the Apostolics I know, though I have come across this "Jesus only" teaching - very much a fringe cult it seems.
Unless they came out of the traditional, original Apostolics?
Jeannette
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| | 2007/5/30 18:59 | |
| | Re: | | Here's a good source for more of their beliefs and where they got them from.
Yeah, I hate to agree with you on that word "cult", but I'm afraid it's a true "counterfeit". I don't like saying that because I love them. I got pretty close to those on that board for the short time I was there and the fellowship I was in until the Jesus Only part slipped out from their Pastor.
http://www.carm.org/oneness.htm
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| | 2007/5/30 19:53 | | Ignitemysoul
Member
Joined: 2006/1/12
Posts: 43
Appleton
| | Re: | | Hi Jeannette,
I am so sorry I am from Appleton, Wisconsin, USA. I found their web site actually www.atchurch.org Some of their many beliefs are:
WE BELIEVE... There is only one God (Deuteronomy 6:4). He is the Creator of heaven and earth, and of all living beings. He has revealed Himself to humanity as the Father (Creator), in the Son (Savior), and as the Holy Ghost (the indwelling Spirit).
WE BELIEVE... God is a Spirit (John 4:24). He is the Eternal One, the Creator of all things, and the Father of all humanity by creation. He is the First and the Last, and beside Him there is no God (Isaiah 44:6). There was no God formed before Him; neither shall be there any after Him (Isaiah 43:10).
WE BELIEVE... Jesus is the Son of God according to the flesh (Romans 1:3) and the very God Himself according to the Spirit (Matthew 1:23). Jesus is the Christ (Matthew 16:16); the Creator of all things (Colossians 1:16-17); God with us (Matthew 1:23); God made flesh (John 1:1-14); God manifested in the flesh (I Timothy 3:16); He which was, which is, and which is to come, the Almighty (Revelation 1:8); the mighty God, everlasting Father, and Prince of peace (Isaiah 9:6).
Jesus Himself testified of His identity as God when He said, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:7-11) and "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).
WE BELIEVE... The Holy Ghost is not a third person in the Godhead, but rather the Spirit of God (the Creator), the Spirit of the resurrected Christ. The Holy Ghost comes to dwell in the hearts and lives of everyone who believes and obeys the Gospel, as the Comforter, Sustainer, and Keeper (John 14:16-26; Romans 8:9-11).
WE BELIEVE... Water baptism is an essential part of New Testament salvation and not merely a symbolic ritual. It is part of entering into the kingdom of God (God's church, the bride of Christ), and therefore, it is not merely a part of local church membership. (See John 3:5; Galatians 3:27).
WE BELIEVE... The baptism of the Holy Ghost is the birth of the Spirit (John 3:5). This spiritual baptism is necessary to put someone into the kingdom of God (God's church, the bride of Christ) and is evidenced by speaking in other tongues (other languages) as the Spirit of God give utterance.
It was prophesied by Joel (Joel 2:28-29) and Isaiah (Isaiah 28:11), foretold by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11), purchased by the blood of Jesus, and promised by Him to His disciples (John 14:26; 15:16). The Holy Ghost was first poured out on the Day of Pentecost upon the Jews (Acts 2:1-4), then upon the Samaritans (Acts 8:17), and later upon the Gentiles (Acts 10:44-46; 19:6). "The promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call" (Acts 2:39).
Interestingly I discovered a coworker of mine has attended their and now attends a different church but the doctrine is the same. Salvation is obtained by repentance followed by water baptism, the baptism of the holy spirit with tounges as evidence! This is really the first that I have heard of this. Not a real popular teaching around here at least.
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Jon De Vet
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| | 2007/5/30 23:50 | Profile | KingJimmy
Member
Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC
| | Re: | | Quote:
They believe that speaking in tongues is the evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost, not salvation.
I thought Apostolic Oneness-Pentecostals believes that all born-again believers will be baptized in the Spirit at conversion, and thus, speak in tongues, thus, evidence of salvation. Perhaps I have confused them with somebody else.
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Jimmy H
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| | 2007/5/30 23:56 | Profile |
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