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ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

RobertW wrote:

Who here has the wisdom to correct the churches? Who among us walks in the midst of the candlesticks?




Yes, Amen. None of us. He is the only One with the wisdom and the authority to walk in the midst of the candlesticks, and trim the lamps. They are, after all, His own candlesticks.

He is our great High priest, and He walks in the midst of the lampstands as the priest of old did in the tabernacle, ordering the shewbread, lighting the incense, trimming the lamps... He had some hard things to say to some of the lamps because they weren't shining forth all that well. But He did this out of His priestly heart.

Realizing this brings a holy fear upon me. Do I without much thought to what I am doing, reach out and presume to touch the ark? Only the priests are rightly related to the ark, and this because they have been anointed and sanctified, and know they are not to touch it (the Glory) with their own words or hands.

Or do I speak about all the wrongs and ills and evils in a wrong spirit? Only the priests were sanctified and anointed to deal with the sin of the sanctuary. It meant death for anyone unauthorized to touch these things even if these things had become defiled!

So, if it is He alone who walks in the midst of the Candlesticks accomplishing His priestly service, I must be certain that what I do or say is in His Holy Spirit, and springs out from HIMSELF.

Honestly, I tremble about these things. I know the Church is in deep trouble, but has God done the work He needs to do in my own life to make me a vessel in which He HIMSELF can deal with it all?

Help us, Lord. Help me. Your church is filthy, so we cry, sanctify US. We, like the One who walked amidst the candlesticks, would be clothed upon with priestly garments. Anoint us to do Your own work! Come forth in fire, and fuller's soap, and purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver is purged. Wash us-- those whom you have called with a priestly calling-- wash us with that Soap that leaves YOU shining forth from our lives! THEN shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasing unto the Lord as in days of old. Amen.

AD


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Allan Halton

 2007/5/21 14:39Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
But I want to be in a circle of strong believers, people who are totally sold out to God, and it's hard to find that anymore.

Thats what attracts me to this forum. There are people like that here... but in real life, where are they?



This is exactly where I am at, too. I would not want to get into an argument with you, Brother Krittr, as to who is the weakest, but I know myself. I also know myself to be weak.

And I deeply need fellowship. But I walk more or less alone in my locale. It is hard to find others "in real life" who are sold out to God and are seeking Him for more of Himself, and wanting to give Him more of themselves. Just about everybody I know around here are more or less content to "go with the flow" of "The Church," without searching out all that carefully where she is flowing!

And so that is what attracted me, too, to this site. I see others with the same "distress, and discontent, and debt" (of poverty of spirit) that I myself feel. Like David's men, the ones who came to him when they got sick and tired of Saul's ways. (1 Sam. 22.2). I was gladdened when I came across this site. And I hope, in a right spirit, a priestly spirit, we can continue to share openly our griefs with one another, and our discontent, and our debts (if you know what I mean). Without worrying, Now what have I gone and done and said. Now I'm in trouble again.

AD


_________________
Allan Halton

 2007/5/21 15:03Profile
awakenwithin
Member



Joined: 2007/1/31
Posts: 985
AZ

 Re:

To hear and see, and feel the sick and dying state of the place called the Church is hard to bear. ALthough there are good ones. We need to be awaken to sick state of America. She needs our deep crys. She is crying for help, are willing to help?

We can't step away and go on with our own lives.
We must feel. We weep. May our hearts be crushed.
We need to love by bring the truth, willing to step out and speak. God gave us a voice, so let us speak out against the wrong. He is a Holy God we called to be Holy as He is holy. To speak out when we see our brothers sister in SIns. Lets Us love them. Let us care, let into their lives. God gave us hands to give. God gave us a heart to be broken for the lost who think they are saved.
Broken Because they are running away with the glory of our King.

many are saying ther are few who are seeking hard after God. I do agree. But if I did nothing about it what good what will it do. But what can we do? what can I do? I know people in my life, in Church, in a bible study, even it is just one. Start praying for them. Pray God will bring people to us. He does it!! He will answer. God brings people in my life, to share with. We must take time to pray and love those who are weak, those who need to be show the way of truth. May we not get upset, but even more passionate to pray, share, speak truth. If they are family, then lets give our lives for them. Isn't the Greatest love is one who lay down his life for a friend.

God said if we follow Him HE WILL make us fisher of men.... Let us follow His ways..

don't give up if we see no change in someone, keep praying. Lets keep praying for our brother and sister who need our love. and let us pray for the lost

In his love
charlene


_________________
charlene

 2007/5/21 15:58Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone.

Just gleaned a bit from this last page here and I really appreciate some of the things you all have shared.

Brother Robert,


"But I worry that we run the risk of thrashing the people with our own feelings."


Brother I appreciate that. I think it is a tremendous statement.


AD, the post about the candlestick and the priests was a blessing.



I have recently listened to a message given by Keith Daniel several times and I think there is much in it that is appropriate for this topic also, from what I've read here...






[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=8193&commentView=itemComments]The influnce of the Holy Spirit Through a Believer[/url]


Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/5/21 18:34Profile
Spitfire
Member



Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633


 Re: Stop it!!

Today is the first time I've read through this thread. It is certainly on a topic that I would say, is the most relevant topic for me. This is [i]all[/i] I think about!

I have agonized and cried many tears for this reason, trying to sort out the question, "Where is the Church?" and crying from my heart, "Will the real Church of Jesus Christ please stand up?"

I hate to post a long post, cause people don't usually read them, but I can tell, this one's gonna be a long one. Sorry.

Quote:
Do we not know that when we put down the Church we are putting down ourselves? We are apart of the Church, the called out ones.



I know that. Or at least, I've given that much thought. I've decided that the Church is not in an institution or anywhere else for that matter. The Church is everywhere. And when I say the problem with the Church is...I'm saying the institutional Church, not the True Church. You can't call the institutional church, Church anymore than you can call Walmart church. Sure, there might be true believers in an institutional church, but there are true believers at Walmart.

I'm not gonna take the time to quote the exact scripture right here, but Jesus said, in speaking to the woman at the well, (paraphrasing) "Why do you make a big deal out of where God will be worshipped? The time is coming when he won't be worshipped anywhere on this earth, but God is looking for True Worshippers and they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. The True Church is made up of people everywhere who are worshipping God with their whole being.

What is True Worship? It's the complete submission of one's self in every way to God. We just left a church where the youth pastor was allowing his girlfriend to sleep over at his apartment. He also led the worship! What?! How can you lead people in worship if you don't know what worship is?!

Worship isn't singing songs, people. Worship is a way of life.

Leaving this church, for me, was very likely the last straw. I've tried to be a part of institutional churches. I've tried with all my heart, but I'm jealous for the glory of God. I can't stand to see them act like they represent God, when what they promote is a farce. I realize that there are some pastors whose hearts are earnest, but the problem is, as I see it, what happens in the hearts of men when they are allowed to over organize. Pride!

Below is a burning word which has formed in my heart over time. I wrote it down about 4 months ago:

I see the people of Israel, chosen by God to be his own, whom he used to establish his religion through. I see how those people, because of their pride and rebellion and individualism and loving this world, rejected God when he came to them.

So then, God chose to go into the highways and byways and take in anyone who would come and he formed the Church. But…once again, the pride in the heart of man has corrupted that which God has intended. So, I believe, once again, God will do what he will do in coming again apart from organized religion. The religious leaders of our day will be opposed to the true work of The Living God. They will claim to be the ones we need to listen to, but if we follow them, we will find ourselves opposing God and even crying, “Crucify Him!” in the end.

This is what I see. My greatest fear is being so deceived that I would reject God because he doesn’t do things the way I think he should.

I see how strong the desire for recognition and validation is in the heart of man, and I see how the hunger for honor causes those in authority to stray back into the soulish, going of their own way. Allowing our souls to live is a great danger. It always preceeds deception.

In the same way that God had to abandon the organized religion of the Jews, God has had to abandon organized Christianity. God hasn't abandoned people, he has abandoned the organized group of people who claim to represent him, yet are going their own way.

So, what's wrong with the Church? Nothing! The True Church is thriving and advancing the Kingdom and destroying all the works of the enemy. The institutional church is...I don't know. They are out there in some NaNa Land. Love, Dian

 2007/5/23 6:31Profile









 Re:

Quote:
So, what's wrong with the Church? Nothing! The True Church is thriving and advancing the Kingdom and destroying all the works of the enemy. The institutional church is...I don't know. They are out there in some NaNa

I usually don't read long posts but I could have read more of yours, thanks for sharing that.

 2007/5/23 15:48









 Re:

Quote:
Spitfire wrote: Below is a burning word which has formed in my heart over time. I wrote it down about 4 months ago:

I see the people of Israel, chosen by God to be his own, whom he used to establish his religion through. I see how those people, because of their pride and rebellion and individualism and loving this world, rejected God when he came to them.

So then, God chose to go into the highways and byways and take in anyone who would come and he formed the Church. But…once again, the pride in the heart of man has corrupted that which God has intended. So, I believe, once again, God will do what he will do in coming again apart from organized religion. The religious leaders of our day will be opposed to the true work of The Living God. They will claim to be the ones we need to listen to, but if we follow them, we will find ourselves opposing God and even crying, “Crucify Him!” in the end.

I hesitate to post this, and it's also long, but it seems so relevant. It was given, if I remember, at the height of "Toronto blessing" mania:

15/11/03


The River of God flows clear as crystal - doesn't it? Why then do I 'see' this rushing torrent full of debris and mud and drowned beasts? Why then this chaos, confusion, death and destruction? 'Everything shall live wherever the river goes'; how can God contradict His Word?

The River flows clear at its source. From under the Altar and the Throne of God comes liquid crystal, liquid fire, growing ever deeper, ever more powerful.

But as it moves outwards and onwards the River meets the pollutions of man head on. And when that happens.....

"For ages I have restrained myself, reined in my fury, delayed judgement, withheld the full expression of my power. For I remember my covenant with Noah, that a flood will no more overwhelm the earth - while the earth remains. But the time of the earth is nearing its close.

For the world's sake I delay, for I would not have any to perish. For my people's sake I hold back, because they are still not ready. But it will not be for much longer.

While Moses was on the mountain receiving the Word of the Lord the people were singing, dancing partying, worshipping the works of their own hands. At the moment when the Covenant was being made they had already broken it! And Aaron - who should have known better - allowed them, even helped them. His own heart deceived him, because he genuinely thought that the Calf he had made was a representation of the true and living God. He loved me, he wanted to serve me, but the thoughts of his heart led him astray, and the people after him.

YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME! Worship me in spirit and in truth. Come to me and cleanse your hearts and purify your lips and wash your polluted hands. Rejoice before me, not before a thing that has come out of your own mind and heart and will. Do not deceive yourselves that you serve me, for you are polluted - all of you.

Yet fear not, but come and be cleansed.

You have heard how Isaiah my servant received the revelation of Glory. He did not refuse the heavenly vision. He did not try to deceive himself that he was righteous before God. Rather he cried out in agony of soul, 'UNCLEAN!!!!!'

Ezekiel too, when he saw angels slaying the priests and the elders of his people, was amazed that he was left alive. He was terrified at the vision, not 'blessed'. Daniel even became sick through the devastating effect of some of the things he saw.

You are blind guides until you receive the true revelation of Holiness. As Jesus said, it is not a sin to be blind, and know you are blind. For then you will come and be healed. But if you are blind and do not know it then you are in a desperate condition. Remember how Paul was made physically blind on the Damascus road, so that he could understand his spiritual blindness and receive his sight! For I love the blind 'Pharisee' just as much as I love all the other sinners; but sometimes I have to be tougher with you. 'Miserable sinners', who know what they are, are easy to save!

"Stop trying to do your own thing. Stop working in your own strength. Stop building in wood, hay and stubble. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me. Work from the position of my Sabbath Rest, not of your strivings!

I love you, my children, my servants! This word is not to condemn but to release you from bondage to your own ways. Many of you are working so hard to serve me. Let me purify you with the live coal from off the altar of my holiness. Then, and only then, will you be able to say with Isaiah, 'Here am I, send me.' "


Makes one tremble...

in Him

Jeannette

 2007/5/24 18:49
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
The institutional church is...I don't know. They are out there in some



This, to me, is friendly fire. It can leave the impression that anyone attending a corner church that may be part of an organization is somehow 'institutional' and out of step with God. But some of the more godly people on earth attend these churches and are spending and being spent for God. There are people in these places that get no salary and actually pay the bills for the needs of the church. They knock on doors and pray. They seek the face of God and folk are genuinely born again there. If we take on an attitude that all churches are institutional or even infer that- what is to be said when a person is born again and reads some of this stuff about the place wherein they just came to God. Noone picked me up at 7 years old and took me to a house church or a gymnasium, that was not my experience; I was picked up and brought to a 'institutional' church and taught my first knowledge of God and the fear of God. To this day we still try to carry on this work. So, I would hope that folk kept than in mind before shooting off a few rounds in our direction. :-?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/24 19:21Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

You are right, Robert. There is no doubt whatever that what you are saying is true. Precious ministers, true hearted men, are there. The sheep of God's pasture are there. Some of them are among my closest friends.

But I hope you are willing to concede that we are in the beginnings of a very great shaking, the end of which will be that institutional, or denominational Christianity, as we know it, will be history.

AD


_________________
Allan Halton

 2007/5/24 19:33Profile









 Re:

Quote:
If we take on an attitude that all churches are institutional or even infer that

I am very sure that we all don't think that. It's a general statement, specifically speaking there are some Pastors here and there that dot the map that are involved in the organization of man, yet God still moves even in the midst of confusion. We believed that we were the only Church in our city that preached the truth, however, God may have another seven thousand that haven't bowed the knee to Baal too. God will meet any man that has his face towards Him, whether they are in the organization or not.

 2007/5/24 19:52





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