I have been hearing so much talk of people putting down the Church. Do we not know that when we put down the Church we are putting down ourselves? We are apart of the Church, the called out ones.

Yes we have been down trodden, but do we need to put ourselves down further? The believers that I know of are not what we are depicting. The ones that I know have stopped going to a local assembly because they don't see the truth preached there anymore, they have been knocked down, kicked about. Most have been rejected by the Church system.

If we are talking about the Church in regards to the denominations, I'll be the first to be on the soap box to preach against that garbage, but I have no interest in that mess.

I see a people that are broken, hurting, perishing for a lack of knowledge. And yet we can't say anything good about ourselves.

When we say that the church is in bad shape, do we not hear ourselves, we are saying that we are in bad shape.

But look at what the Bible says about this Church that the LORD has bought.

I agree with you. It is one thing to point out everything that is wrong but another thing to bring back aberrant sheep. Yes, there are false churches and a general decline in Christianity. As long as the Holy Spirit still indwells the a church there is hope of restaurantion. In the seven letters to the churches in Revelation Jesus gave stern warnings to a number of them and was about to spew out the Laodicean church, yet there was still hope.

Rev 4: 9Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"

There is still a promise to those in the Laodicean church who take the warning to "sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne."

This is a call to patience and grace. God will only leave a church when nothing works.

I believe the parable of the prodigal son speaks of a church who wants their inheritance NOW. The father gives it to the son who ends up eating with the swine. Great is the joy of the father when the renegate son comes back! Woe to the elder brother who cannot rejoice with the father over the returned prodigal.

I think maybe where the concern lies is in the "message" that is being spoken from the pulpits in many, not all, of today's churches.

Altho the Cross is spoken of, in the Sacrifice of Christ and the Grace and Freedom won through His obedience...There seems to be little or no teaching, preaching, sermons, or messages that speak of Sin and bringing us to a place of conviction.

David Wilkerson's sermon entitiled "The Capacity to be Stirred" (page 14), really brings that reality to light.

Hmmm... I think I have a little different perspective. I dont think people are putting down the church. I think people are frustrated by the Laodecian attitude of the church today. Fat, dumb and happy.

[b]FAT[/b]: over fed. You can eat as much as you want and stay fit simply by exerting as much energy as you take in. Problem is, in America the church is fed 3 or more times a week, but rarely is there any really exersion on the part of the fed. We've decided the pastor is the one who should visit the hospital, preach on the street, visit the shut ins. Where is that in the Bible?? Scripture says: [i]James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.[/i] This is not happening in the church today. We expect the pastor to walk out "pure religion and undefiled before God"... but apparently most believers dont think thats for them.

[b]DUMB[/b]: Well... fact is, for all the feeding thats going on, people are more Biblically illiterate than ever before. We have 80 plus versions of the Bible, but people know less about the Bible than when there was just one. But ask most folks what night "American Idol" is on, and who is gonna win... and most believers today can tell you all about it.

[b]HAPPY[/b]: one phrase is all I need to say... "Seeker-sensitive".

The "church" is sick. We arent against the church, we arent even "down" on the church... we are very concerned. I get no joy out of saying the things I say on this forum. I would much rather prefer that the church wasnt playing the whore... but it is.

And until it stops, I will continue to put medicine on the wound. It hurts, but its the only way the healing can happen.

Krispy

Fat, Dumb and Happy so sad but true.

Matthew 7:13-14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

In His Love
pastorfrin

Well put, Krispy! Some of these things need to be talked about. I think there is a big difference between the true Church and those who are just playing church.

Jordan

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Jordan

Amen!

i do think these things and issues need to be talked about, because if they are hushed, we will not have our guard out... But i hear what *EDIT* compliments is saying i think. We need to be careful not to "bash" but to dicuss, and learn. Let's be kindly affectioned one to another, and preach the truth in love, but also with the FIRE and ZEAL of GOD.

God bless!

(*EDIT* = i wrote the wrong name, but corected it... :))

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Nathan

I think ya'll completely overshot the mark of my original post. I think that you all wanted to protect your cause, which I was not saying anything against. Certainly we are living in an age of loose living. But if you would read my original post again, you'll see clearly that I was trying to convey that not all the church is living loosely, most have been rejected by the church system. They are down trodden, forgotten, some are messed up.

If we judge ourselves, are we living loosely, do we have sin in our lives? If so, then when we speak against the Church, are we not speaking against ourselves?

Maybe I am not explaining myself right. Let me go to the Word. Consider Daniels prayer, he didn't say "The church has sinned, THEY are in bad shape"
No, what he did say was, "WE have sinned". He included himself because he was apart of Israel.