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 Doctrine: Why Should I Believe Yours?

I have encountered multiple doctrinal contradictions on this forum and in my search for the true church. I've heard Charismatics, Cessassionists, Arminians, Calvanists, Hypercalvanists, Evangelicals, Baptists, Anglicans, all claim to point the "better", "safer", even "funner" way to Jesus. Truth be told, I don't trust any of them.

On the one hand I'm told we're not under the old law. On the other I witness (and participate in) a thread containing over 50 posts on whether it's biblical for a man to have long hair.

Why should I trust [b]any[/b] of the doctrines of men that arose after my Lord Jesus ascended? Or did his "finished work" need a little polishing by a savage race like ours?

 2007/5/15 17:21
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Doctrine: Why Should I Believe Yours?

Quote:
Why should I trust any of the doctrines of men that arose after my Lord Jesus ascended? Or did his "finished work" need a little polishing by a savage race like ours?


Let's be sure we understand each other. Are you just trying to be provocative or do you really believe that the only part of the Bible that we should trust is what is known as the gospels?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/5/15 17:39Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Let's be sure we understand each other. Are you just trying to be provocative or do you really believe that the only part of the Bible that we should trust is what is known as the gospels?



To clarify my questions:

1. Why are there so many denominations with so many various doctrines who disagree on so many points - and yet all seem to claim to have the corner on Biblical truth? Who's right?

2. What doctrine does your church teach and why should I, a new believer, believe it?

3. Why would Jesus replace the Old Testament law with "love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind, and strength... and love thy neighbor as thyself"... and then "inspire" Paul to add laws pertaining to hair length, women speaking in the congregation, and women wearing head coverings?

 2007/5/15 18:04
LiveforGod
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 Re: Doctrine: Why Should I Believe Yours?

My dear friend, the truth is that you are corect in all the things you have said.There is much to be confused about now days.One of them being Religion.As you well know there are many Religions claming that they are Right and everyone else is incorrect.

Quote:
Why should I trust any of the doctrines of men that arose after my Lord Jesus ascended? Or did his "finished work" need a little polishing by a savage race like ours?



The truth is that men have made many doctrins wich today are disguised under the name of Christianity.You are right,why should you belibe in somthing made by men.Thats why I advise you to serch and belibe that things wich come from God himself.Thats why there is a Holy Bible wich is the word of God.The only question you have to ask yourself is:Do I belibe the Bible is the Holy word of God?If the answer is yes, then read it and read it and talk to God about what you read.Then you will realise that the true Church of God(and I say church not churches,because if God is the head of the Church then how can there be so many bodies,because the church is the body of Christ according to the Bible)is made of all the persons who have been saved by the Marvellus grace of God.So if you are truly saved from sin and do those things wich are pleasing in Gods sight,then you are allready a part of God's Church and need not fear anything because you are God's Child.And about how to know where to congregate with those who belong to God's church, I am sure that the Lord will tell you hom his true worshipers are.They are all those hom serve him in spirit and in truth.May God Bless you my Brother or sister in Christ.


_________________
Samuel

 2007/5/15 18:12Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: Doctrine: Why Should I Believe Yours?

God will not hold us responsible to understand the mysteries of election, predestination, and the divine sovereignty. The best and safest way to deal with these truths is to raise our eyes to God and in deepest reverence say, "0 Lord, Thou knowest." Those things belong to the deep and mysterious Profound of God's omniscience. Prying into them may make theologians, but it will never make saints.
A.W. Tozer


_________________
TJ

 2007/5/15 18:50Profile
lightwalker
Member



Joined: 2007/4/27
Posts: 52
Missouri

 Re: Doctrine: Why Should I Believe Yours?

In 2 Tim 2:13 we are told to study to show ourselves approved, a workman who rightly understands the word of truth. God is faithful and promises to reveal to you all truth. So you do not need to listen to anyone except The Holy Spirit who will lead you into ALL truth.
Jesus promised that if you seek you will find, so ask God if you need to know something, He will answer you. After all Jesus came to reveal the truth not hide....


_________________
Melody

 2007/5/15 19:05Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
2. What doctrine does your church teach and why should I, a new believer, believe it?



Are you a new believer? You have already made more than 350 posts.

Is this a genuine discussion or are we playing games?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/5/15 19:11Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Are you a new believer? You have already made more than 350 posts.

Is this a genuine discussion or are we playing games?



I've always known God exists, since I was a little child. I recieved my Bible when I was thirteen. I read it on my own through my teenage years and more extensively in my twenties. The more I sinned, the more I read it - and the more my my life became a living hell via conviction.

But I never quite gave myself over to Christ because I'd never heard a pastor [i]not[/i] compromise the Word of God in any church or denomination I had attended. What I read in the gospels by myself, what Jesus told us to do, I never witnessed in the world or in the churches - the more I hoped there were beacons of truth and goodness somewhere in the world, the more depressed I became because there were no examples (except The Book) for me to follow.

Somehow, while doing Biblical research on the net I came across some quotes by A.W. Tozer and was mesmerized... so I read a couple of his books... and then found his sermons here on SI. The first sermon I heard was "The Holy Spirit and Why Some Can't Attain Him". The man actually [i]believed[/i] what he was saying. No compromise. No agenda. Truth. The Holy Spirit came in, I was crying like a baby at 3 A.M. listening to a sermon preached by a salty old saint dead now forty years... and I was converted.

I am grateful that God blessed me with my Bible, Tozer, and my salvation.

But I am utterly bitter about the state of affairs in the churches that left a poor bastard like me out in the cold for so long. I'm bitter because I had to wrestle with my Bible alone and be converted by the spoken, believed, words of a dead man. And I'm especially bitter because these very same churches who left me to fend for myself and cannot agree on a thing - not a thing - have a fit when an outsider like me, who's read the Bible without the benefit (or maybe it is a benefit) of an official church doctrine, dares to ask a question.

Yes, I am a new believer. And, no, I'm not playing games. I'm in this for my soul.

 2007/5/15 20:18
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Corey_H wrote:
1. Why are there so many denominations with so many various doctrines who disagree on so many points - and yet all seem to claim to have the corner on Biblical truth? Who's right?



2 Peter 3:14-16
[i]14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, [b]in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.[/b][/i]

Quote:
2. What doctrine does your church teach and why should I, a new believer, believe it?




1 Thessalonians 5:21
[i]Test all things; hold fast what is good.[/i]

Quote:
3. Why would Jesus replace the Old Testament law with "love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind, and strength... and love thy neighbor as thyself"



So that we're clear...

Matthew 5:17-19
[i]17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. [b]I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.[/b] 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."[/i]

Jesus did not replace the old law with, "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind." This is very clear:

Matthew 22:34-40
[i]34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[d] 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[e] 40 [b]On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.[/b]”[/i]

He quoted straight from the Old Testament:

Deuteronomy 6:5
[i]You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. [/i]

Leviticus 19:18
[i]You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but [b]you shall love your neighbor as yourself[/b]; I am the LORD.[/i]

Quote:
... and then "inspire" Paul to add laws pertaining to hair length, women speaking in the congregation, and women wearing head coverings?



Romans 8:1-2
[i]There is therefore now [b]no condemnation[/b] to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the [b]law of sin and death.[/b][/i]

Jesus came to set us free from the law of sin and death. This means we are free from the consequences of sin (mercy) and the power of sin (grace). As believers, we are free from the law of sin and death and we have no condemnation. Jesus did not come to set us free from the Old Testament law, because the Old Testament Law was merely a shadow of the perfect law (of love) to come. When you realize the difference between the two laws (one says do not murder, the other says do not be angry) you will realize that being under the Old Testament law is far easier than being under God's perfect law! So in this sense, Jesus would not be doing us a favor by freeing us from this easier law and replacing it with a harder law.

Also, even the saints of old were free from the Old Testament law (in one sense). Jesus points this out:

Mark 2:23-27
[i]23 Now it happened that He went through the grainfields on the Sabbath; and as they went His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain. 24 And the Pharisees said to Him, “Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?”
25 But He said to them, “[b]Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him: 26 how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?[/b]”
27 And He said to them, “[b]The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath[/b]. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.[/i]

Consider this example. A father tucks his two 7 year old boys into bed at night and tells them (gives them a law) not to get out of bed for any reason. In the middle of the night, one boy becomes very sick and goes into convulsions. The other boy jumps out of bed and rushes to tell his parents. Was this wrong of him? Of course not! He understood that the law his father gave him was for his good, and if it was clear that following the law would not result in good, he had the freedom to disregard the law. More so - he was under obligation to disregard the law. The Old Testament Law is the same way.

The New Testament Law is different in that it is not a set of rules and regulations concerning external things, but it is the description of a heart perfectly bent towards loving God. And because a heart perfectly bent towards loving God will reflect God in every way, the New Testament Law is a reflection of who God is. Commands such as give thanks always, do not be angry with anyone, do not worry, be hopeful, trust God - these are all commands dealing with the heart, they are always right to do and they never change, because they are reflections of who Christ is!

With all these things in mind, consider again the instructions Paul gave concerning hair and head-coverings. He gave these instructions for the good of the readers, that much is clear. The only real question to answer is this: Are these instructions pertaining to external things or to internal things? If external, then they are for the readers good (possibly only the readers at that time) and we should follow them - but we know we have liberty to break them if it is clear following them will not be for our good. If internal, then must follow them always, for they reflect the nature of God.

Hopefully I've shed some light on your questions!

Glory to God for everything!!!
-Nile


_________________
Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/5/15 20:19Profile
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

One more thing to encourage you Corey:

Romans 8:28
[i]And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.[/i]

Yep...[i]all things[/i]. That is why we not to worry about anything, but instead give thanks in all things. :-)

Also, I would point to these teachings by Zac Poonen:

[url=http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/basic_christian_teachings.php]Basic Teachings[/url]

They are short 15 minute lessons on everything important. They are the best teachings I have heard in my life!

Nile

p.s.
I'm a fairly new believer also, although I've been in the church all my life.


_________________
Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/5/15 20:26Profile





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