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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear katy-did,

thank you so much for your posts..i think that is the amazing thing about the true gospel. it sets the believer free from bondage and fear and repels the unrepentant heart..this crucified life is what we have been called to. when i read of Jesus and paul and peter, i see no other example except an life wholly given to God. did the disciples fail, of course, but their heart was one of following Him no matter what.. and that is what amazes me. if we focus on Christ, this OSAS / losing salvation becomes useless, because we are looking at the TRUE GIFT (Christ) and not just doctrine. salvation from Hell is not the gift, HE IS. i believe that a true believer will persevere because He will continue to encourage, correct, refine, and protect us..
Lord help us not lose sight of the big picture in discussions such as this.. thank you for sharing your experience..

 2007/6/15 12:34Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
LoveHim wrote:did i miss something?? i thought we were discussing if one could ever get out of christ if one has truly been placed in union with Christ. maybe you could clarify what you are trying to say.. thanks.


[b]Rom 12:18[/b] [color=990000]If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.[/color]
If this is possible, then this is also:
[color=990000]if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.[/color] [b]Mat 24:24[/b]

 2007/6/15 13:58Profile









 Re:

Psalms 73,
You quoted "Profess unto them Depart from me, I never knew you, ye workers of inquity"

I wonder if people have picked up on those words, "I *NEVER* knew you.

If one could lose their salvation, wouldn't Jesus have said, "I knew you at one time"? But He said NEVER knew you.

Logic, " *If* it were possible" means to me that the deception is going to be so keen, just like counterfit money is today...they are getting better and better at it. ...It's not going to be so blatent in your face with a neon sign saying, I'm a counterfit. Without KNOWING the Lord, it would be easy to be deceived. The word KNOWING is the same as when Adam KNEW His wife Eve. The relationship is so intimate, and the Oneness so intimate, you would know if someone was trying to pass themself off as your husband or wife, even blindfolded.

Jesus prayed in John17, that they would KNOW Him, Paul said, that I may *KNOW* Him, and the fellowship fo His sufferings. We KNOW the Lord through this fellowship. We know what it is to eat His flesh and drink His blood. Jesus is the Bread of Life, and we follow the LAMB where-ever He goes. The "Lamb", what does the Lamb represent? ......not the King...that will come later when we see him face to face, reigning and ruling with Him in the 1000 Year Kingdom Age.
Love in Christ
Katy-did :-)

 2007/6/15 14:43
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Katy-did wrote:
Logic, " *If* it were possible" means to me that the deception is going to be so keen, just like counterfit money is today...they are getting better and better at it. ...It's not going to be so blatent in your face with a neon sign saying, I'm a counterfit. Without KNOWING the Lord, it would be easy to be deceived. The word KNOWING is the same as when Adam KNEW His wife Eve. The relationship is so intimate, and the Oneness so intimate, you would know if someone was trying to pass themself off as your husband or wife, even blindfolded.

Reality is that not all true born again Christians know Christ as like you said. They will be decieved and depart from the true faith.

 2007/6/15 15:46Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

First, lets get this blotting out of the Lambs book out of the way.

Revelation 3:1-5 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

"that thou are alive and art dead", "it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me",
"I am crucified with Christ and yet I live"

I am dead in Christ and I am alive in Christ. My death was on the Cross with Him, dead to sin, because of Him, not me. I am alive because of the Christ in me, His birth in me is the separation of soul and spirit. Before I was crucified to sin with Christ, on His Cross, not mine, I was owned by the spirit of satan, now I am owned by the Spirit of Christ that is in me, Bought and paid for.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
I am His and He is mine, my spirit no longer can rule my life by the power of satan, this is what the Word does it spearates the Soul and Spirit that the soul of Man can be saved by the Spirit of Christ. It is learning process and that process is directed and learned by the Holy Spirit that is placed in us at salvation, by the answered prayer of Jesus Christ to the Father.
Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever;

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Forever, sounds like a pretty save bet, we cannot loose our salvation.

Our new life is Christ, and our new life cannot be changed back to old life. Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

The old man were deeds of the flesh, desired and controlled by the will of Satan. We the born again no longer are controlled by Satan. We are now controlled by the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit who are in us forever. Loosing ones salvation is a slap in the Face of God. The Cross was not good enough so you oh man must do it or you will loose your salvation and once you are saved you are not always saved depending on your works and your actions. Satan's lie: you can loose your salvation, just like the lie in the garden, it is up to you, surly God will not let you die, for He knows you will be just like Him and acquire the knowledge of Good and Evil, then you can acquire your own salvation or decide to loose it if you want.

Those that are in the Lambs book have a name and we live. Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it So be watchful and strengthen the things that remain. These things are the left over's from the old man syndrome, not the sins of the spirit of Christ that is in us, impossible, which by the way is the only way a person could loose their salvation, for God to go back on His promise of salvation, if you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God thou salt be saved. For He is even the One that reveals even that to us. Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

"and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die:" What are ready to die? The things that are left over in the old man mind that was once ruled by Satan. We must renew our mind to the mind of Christ, the New Man that is not our Spirit but His and rules and overrules our soul mind and brings us into conformity to Him.

the only precedent here is not believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. " He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; "and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
This blotting out has nothing to do with those that are saved. But, only those who are blotted out of the Lambs book of Life, that is the unbeliever, the unsaved. We are assured that in Christ and wearing white raiment we will not be blotted out of the Lambs book of Life.

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment;" No one overcometh by his own works, the only One that overcometh is the Christ in us and Paul's statement of How can he overcome this body of sin is pure and true.

Romans 7:23-25 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. (The old man, ruled by the spirit of Satan) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; (because of the Mind of Christ we have) but with the flesh the law of sin.

Again you cannot abort the Spirit of God, but the flesh can be deceived into believing that we can loose our salvation.

Peter also: 1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, [let him speak] as the oracles of God; if any man minister, [let him do it] as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

Those that are in Christ Jesus do not walk after the flesh but they walk after the Spirit of Christ by the Holy Spirit teacher in us.

In Christ and in the Book of the Lamb and cannot be blotted out: Phillip




_________________
Phillip

 2007/6/15 16:29Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

amen phillip,

thank you for the scriptures. when we truly consider what happens at true conversion.it's amazing.

*we are a new creation 2 cor 5:17
*old man is crucified with christ rom 6:6
*we have the Holy Spirit take residence in us romans 8:11
*we are seated in heavenly places in Him eph 2:6
*we have been translated from darkness to light and into the kingdom of his Son col 1:13
*we've been sealed with the Holy Spirit eph1:13

these are just some of the marvelous things..

 2007/6/15 16:49Profile









 Re:

Logic, When Jesus says ...I never KNEW you, He means just that...He never *Knew* them. How can one be saved and not know the Lord and the Lord know them. This is what Paul is telling us what true salvation is. As Phil pointed out earlier, this is all that Paul, Peter, John, James, and Jude told us and preached about. This is all that Jesus said salvation was. Those who fall away were led to believe they were saved but by a bogus Gospel. There is only one Gospel, and Paul said all other Gospels are accursed. An accursed Gospel cannot save you.

Point in fact some might not want to hear. Benny Hinn claims he received the anointing of the Holy Spirit at Amy McPherson's grave site, standing over her grave. Now, my friends...that is witchcraft. His prophesies are lies, and the Bible clearly says beware of these guys, anyone who prophesies falsely and that is manifest is a false prophet. I knew the minute I heard Mr. Hinn that what he said DID NOT do anything but make me know there is an unholy spirit out there parading around as the Holy Spirit, doing all kind of supposed miracles. Well, just as it says in 2 Timothy, to beware of Jammes and Jannes, however you spell it, were those in Moses time who also counterfeited miracles...guess what, Paul uses that same illustration in 2 Timothy.

Many have a form of Godliness, but deny the power, from such turn away. Yet, those who have the discernment to see through the counterfeit are accused of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit... I know better, but many new born Christians don't, and are threatened that if they question these shysters, they are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
What is our Job? Get the word out, no matter what, even it kills you and everyone hates you. Quote scripture after scripture, even if they spit in your face while doing it...these and many are caught in the snare of Satan. Rather then sit here and decide who is and isn't saved, please those who know the truth...keep telling the Truth.

What did Jude say, save some , snatching them out of the fire, hating even their flesh to be spotted by the world.

We are here to witness to the Lost and the one’s being deceived. Not be criticized for not getting on and agreeing with them for the sake of peace. Jesus didn’t come to bring peace, but a sword. And His WORD is that Sword.

Love in Christ
Katy-did
:-)

 2007/6/15 17:21
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Amen

"peace, but a sword. And His WORD is that Sword"

The Word is Him and the Sword is double edged and divides asunder the soul/mind and the Spirit/of Christ that is in us. Amen

1 Peter 1:18-23 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: (((((Being born again,))))) not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The Word of God: John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jesus Christ and it is in Him in whom we live and move and have our being: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/6/15 17:41Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
First, lets get this blotting out of the Lambs book out of the way.

Y'all don't know to many new believers do you?

 2007/6/15 18:07Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Quite a few Logic, I am doing all I can to set them free in Christ that they might pursue Him and His life in them.

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Why would you want all those that believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God to be saved?

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/6/15 20:25Profile





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