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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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PosterThread
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

Ok- once again... The bible teaches that when God saves a man- THAT MAN WILL BE SAVED in the last day- otherwise that man was never saved.


1 John 3:6 "Whoever (unrepentantly bathes in) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."




1 Peter 1:4, 5 "4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

John 3:16 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life;"

John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

1 John 5:13 "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,[a] and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."

John 6:39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day."

John 10:28-29 "28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand."

Eph 1:13, 14 "having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"

Phil 1:6 "6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;"

Romans 6:14 "14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace."

Phil 2:13 "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."

1 John 2:19 "19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us."

Romans 8:38-39 "38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."




Let me explain...



Philippians 1:6
"being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ" IT IS CHRIST WHO BEGAN.

Phil 2:12-13 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." IT IS GOD WHO WORKS.


1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us." All who have ever fallen away(permanently) were never saved in the first place.


******If you are TRULY saved(justified) you will continue being saved(sanctified) and will finally be saved(glorified).

_______________________________________________
1 John Cpts 2 & 3

"3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked."


"4 Whoever commits(pratices) sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."
________________________________________________

God hates sin and somebody who loves sin consequently hates God and is lost. If you are saved you will strive to be holy.

1 Peter 1:16
"because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy.""

Hebrews 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

A real conversion is when somebody REPENTS of all thier sin (by the power of God). Turns away from all of it and experiences a radicaly changed life in love for God. If they don't perservere they were not saints. If somebody lives in and practices sin, they are lost.

Its not that by your works you are saved but if you are saved you have works! Otherwise you have a dead faith!

James 2:20
"But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"

James 2:26
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."


"Once saved always saved" This phrase is devastating to people who twist things to thier own destruction. The question really is...

2 Corinthians 13:5
"Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified."

2 Peter 1:10
"Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble"

WERE YOU SAVED? DID YOU REALLY CHANGE? ARE YOU LIVING IN SIN? DO YOU PRACTICE UNRIGHTEOUSNESS? HAVE YOU BEEN SAVED?????

Repent, believe, have faith in God, trust Christ's sacrifice, be "Born Again" (or regenerated), follow Christ, obey God, love God, know God, seek God, fear God all the days of your life. Do all these things with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. Salvation is by Grace, through faith, in Christ Alone. Be converted! (Provided by God)
________________________________________________
John 10:29
Romans 8:38-39
Ephesians 1:13-14

"Unless I am convinced by Scripture and by plain reason and not by Popes and councils who have so often contradicted themselves, my conscience is captive to the word of God. To go against conscience is neither right nor safe. I cannot and I will not recant. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me." -Martin Luther


_________________
Kristy

 2007/5/15 11:31Profile









 Re:

Grace... thank you. Amen.

Sometimes I think there are those here who see it as a sign of spirituality to challange and attempt to debunk orthodoxy (long accepted theology). While I am all for re-thinking everything, and making changes in personal theology where it is required... I really do sense a lot of pride in this constant, critical assault on doctrines that have been established thru scripture for eons of time.

Krispy

 2007/5/15 11:45









 Re: once saved ... always saved ??


GraceAlone,

I see you have posted exactly the same in another discussion. This is confusing and makes it look as if you haven't read the other discussion, which is about something slightly [i]different[/i].

 2007/5/15 11:58
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

James 5:19-20(NASB)

19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,

20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

This says to me he WAS saved and strayed from the truth. Nobody took him…HE strayed. And his soul was in jeopardy of death.


He was – saved
He was – not saved
Turn him back – He will be saved

my 2 cents



_________________
TJ

 2007/5/15 12:10Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Sometimes I think there are those here who see it as a sign of spirituality to challange and attempt to debunk orthodoxy (long accepted theology). While I am all for re-thinking everything, and making changes in personal theology where it is required... I really do sense a lot of pride in this constant, critical assault on doctrines that have been established thru scripture for eons of time.



Great point...I heard someone say one time:

"Everyone thinks Christianity started 2 weeks before they got saved."

 2007/5/15 12:17
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
James 5:19-20(NASB)

19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,

20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.



Who is the brethern he is talking to?

Jam 2:2 (ASV) For if there come into your synagogue a man with a gold ring, in fine clothing, and there come in also a poor man in vile clothing;

I used the ASV because they translate the word '[url=http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?book=Jam&chapter=2&verse=2&strongs=4864&page=]sunagoge[/url]' as synagogue rather then assembly.

The only other time I see that the KJV translates that word to anything other than synagogue is in Acts 13:43. It was translated "congregation" but the context plainly shows it was in a synagogue.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.


I'm fairly sure that James was writing to a synagogue that may have had unbelievers in it. There were probably those that had not converted to Christ "among them."


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/5/15 12:50Profile
Burn4Christ
Member



Joined: 2007/2/14
Posts: 41


 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

I don't really see how anyone can believe "once saved always saved" in respects to the common belief of the doctrine. While I do believe to some degree with what krispy said "they were never saved" I definately don't think its absolute. I also don't think that Jaysaved has a good argument on Christ's message to the Church in Sardis. It's a pretty clear statement. There is 7 different churches here and he specifically singles out this one. I'm not sure how anyone can argue what is meant by Christ constantly telling the churches to repent of their sins...or else. Let's keep in mind that this is addressed to "the church". Just look at what he tells Ephesus vs.4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because THOU hast left thy first love. vs5 Remember therefore from whence THOU art fallen, and repent, and do the first works: or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, EXCEPT THOU repent. Question: Does God make false promises? If they did not repent..what was the consequences. If my memory serves me correct I believe it was 5 out of 7 he told to repent. Christ called them the "Church" would he not call them the "Church" if they were not His. Bottom line is Christ always gives His church time (space) to repent. But, if they don't repent they suffer the consequences. And Yes, losing your salvation is one of them.

Suffering: it was the way of the master, should not the servant tread it still. Leonard Ravenhill


_________________
Christopher Cox

 2007/5/15 13:00Profile
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

Quote:

Sometimes I think there are those here who see it as a sign of spirituality to challange and attempt to debunk orthodoxy (long accepted theology). While I am all for re-thinking everything, and making changes in personal theology where it is required... I really do sense a lot of pride in this constant, critical assault on doctrines that have been established thru scripture for eons of time.



I don't think that's being fair. This thread started out of another thread by Philogos where he raised a eternal security related question.

I don't claim to be completely free of pride, but I think most who have posted here have simply tried to expressed their genuine views in a respectful manner, as you have done.

On long accepted doctrine, conflicting views on 'contentious' topics like gifts of the Spirit, Eternal Security, etc have been around for a long time. RCC is a long accepted doctrine, but that doesn't make it right.

If I'm persistent in my views, it's because I haven't been convinced otherwise. I include scriptures to support my views in most of my posts. If I misinterpreted them, why not present a correct interpretation?

For example, give an alternative interpretation of the 'blotting out' scriptures in Revelations if you are convinced that it means something else.

PassingThru

 2007/5/15 13:16Profile









 Re:

I think I didnt express myself very well, so I've been misunderstood. I said I'm all about rethinking theologies to be sure what we believe is scriptural. I think what I was expressing frustration with is sometimes when an accepted theological doctrine is drawn into question on this forum it can sometimes be laced with prideful sentiment.

Kinda like "I know this is what has always been accepted as doctrine, but [b]I[/b] have been enlightened to the truth!"

And the opposing view is treated with smug indifference.

I know I can fall prey to that too... but really thats all I was trying to say.

Krispy

 2007/5/15 14:03
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

Krispy

Thank you for clarifying.

Quote:

Kinda like "I know this is what has always been accepted as doctrine, but I have been enlightened to the truth!"



I think I may often coming across this way. A lot of what I write is really thinking aloud, in the same way I would in an informal discussion. I try to be careful in preceding conjectures with "I think", etc. The remainder are areas where I am totally convinced of my viewpoint and disagree with respect.

I'm writing this because we often seem to be on opposite sides of the tennis court as far as theological discussions are concerned, and I want to ensure you I'm not trying to write a fifth gospel.

PassingThru

 2007/5/15 14:57Profile





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