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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Once Saved...Always Saved???

I am placing this on it's own thread, as I think the question must be explored.

Quote:

staff wrote:
.... but below is just your own personal belief their is as much arguement for "once saved always saved "as to the arguement of you can lose your're salvation...I am not saying that sinning has no consequences,nor I am saying that you can't lose rewards but I am saying "where sin abounds grace abounds even more" and it takes alot to lose your're salvation if at all possible.
rgds staff



Dear Staff,

Once saved, always saved, is true for those that move forward in the Holy Spirit, growing in grace, and ripening into spiritual maturity.

But that Grace is very easily lost.

[color=993300]Romans 2
1. Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
[u]5. But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;[/u]
6. Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7. To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8. But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9. Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10. But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11. For there is no respect of persons with God.
12. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13. (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.[/color]

Grace alone saves us through Jesus Christ, but alas, it is so easy to become complacent, and to stop walking in faith.

At that point, one become particularly vulnerable to the Evil One, who with lies and temptations, will seek to turn the complacent away from their first love of Jesus.

And one cannot stand still even in grace. Unless one walks forward, strengthening the faith walk, and growing in gifts of the Holy Spirit, and reaping the fruit there of, in patience, kindness, humility, endurance, joy and love, sowing into other lives what has been sown into yours, you become on the the foolish virgins, the unprofitable servent, cast into utter darkness, and judged and found wanting at the end of the Tribulation.

[color=993300]Matthew 25
1. Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4. But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
14. For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19. After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24. Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25. And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27. Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
31. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32. And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36. Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38. When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39. Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40. And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43. I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45. Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
[/color]

It is not enough to be saved, and live under grace. Yes, there are only the laws of love to follow, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit to obtain, and use, to the glory of God.

But once you stand still in Jesus, you are in grave danger.

Yes, it may be possible to still receive one's salvation and do nothing over and above what Christ has done, for all our righteousness is in Him.

But the moment one stops going forward, you become prey for the one that seeks to devour you.
The devil is wise in the way of decit, and confusion. And oh, how easy it is to be turned around in your path, and find yourself, convinced that grace will save you, as you walk farther and farther away from Jesus.

And if you turn your back on the Lord, not in the foolish innocence of the newly born in Christ, but of the self satisfied Laodicean Church, who believes they are forever safe, no matter that they only worship themselves and their desires, are they not at risk of grieving the Holy Spirit away completely, and having their consciences seared?

Even pastors and teachers can lead people astray, else the state of the Christian Church in America would not be crumbling. And those that do not seek their Bibles early and often, who do not pray, who do not seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and the protection of God and His angels, can they not go beyond grace into depravity?

Do not speak from opinion only, but search the scriptures.

And believe me, I would be delighted to be proved wrong.

Blessings,

Forrest



_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/5/15 4:42Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; [b]and I will not [i]blot out[/i] his name out of the book of life,[/b] but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.



to me this meens you can have your name writen in the book of life.... and that it can be 'blot' out to.


blot according to Strongs

G1813
ἐξαλείφω
exaleiphō
ex-al-i'-fo
From G1537 and G218; to smear out, that is, obliterate (erase tears, figuratively pardon sin): - blot out, wipe away.


and here is Thayers...


G1813
ἐξαλείφω
exaleiphō
Thayer Definition:

1) to anoint or wash in every part

1a) to besmear: i.e. cover with lime (to whitewash or plaster)

2) to wipe off, wipe away

2a) to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out
Part of Speech: verb


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/5/15 4:51Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2676
Nottingham, England

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

I don't have anymore to add to what has been said, or to the scriptures concerning this subject.

However, there are those who are mislead into thinking, once saved always saved.

It is prevalent and obvious within churches today.

On account of the fear of man rather than a fear of God.

To keep the numbers in the church up rather than to lose people.

And sadly, because of self-deception that is in the churches today.

Also, peoples feelings, we don't want to hurt them do we, because God loves them.

The love gospel if you like, and forgetting that on the other side of the coin is God's wrath.

What the word of God says it says. We either take it or leave it, but don't change it.

God bless.

 2007/5/15 5:14Profile









 Re:

I believe if someone "falls away", then they were never truly saved to begin with. If you are truly saved you [i]will[/i] grow, you [i]will[/i] mature, you [i]will[/i] serve God, you [i]will[/i] have a desire to study His Word... etc etc.

Nothing can seperate us from the love of God, but we have to be abiding in His love. Many think they are, when they are not.

So [b]yes[/b]... once saved always saved. But very few are truly saved.

Krispy

 2007/5/15 7:24
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2676
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Krispy,
Let's look at what scripture says and think about it.

2 Tim 4v10, 'for Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world...

Demas was one of Paul's travelling companions in spreading the gospel.

Was he then not saved when he traveled with Paul?

Demas loved the world and 2 John 2v15 tells us not to love the world, because it means the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Tim 4v1 tells us, 'Now the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some will depart from the faith giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.

In order to depart from the faith, they had to have a faith to begin with.

So while it might seem like they weren't saved, they can depart from God.

Rev 3v2, 'Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.

Also in verse 16 we read, 'So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

Just a few thoughts.

God bless.

 2007/5/15 7:53Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The love gospel if you like, and forgetting that on the other side of the coin is God's wrath




Absolutely, there are two sides to the coin. God is a God of wrath because He is just, and He will judge all men according to His Holy Law. I can either be judged based upon my obedience to His law, or based upon the obedience of another. (Christ)

But don't forget that the full wrath of God was poured out upon His Son. He provided a Lamb; He saw the travail of His soul and was satisfied.

The wrath of God is no longer a fear for those who are in Christ.

The problem is that the Gospel is not preached, or explained correctly in the first place. If an individual understands that inevitable judgment from a Holy God awaits them, and their only hope is the Righteousness of another, and that is the basis/ heart of the Gospel then they would do well.

Let's not change the Glory of the Gospel because we think we see an apathetic Church. Fear of wrath is not what keeps a saint. We are kept by the power of God.

The Glory of the Gospel is that we have been saved from the wrath of God. We have been given the righteousness of another, and we have been translated into the Kingdom of His dear Son.

The Gospel is first, facts...objective truths...the Gospel is an established reality performed by God, that, by the Grace of God we inherit by faith.

A wonderful study would be to search the scriptures and see the contrast of the Blessings of being in Christ and the curses of being in Adam.

 2007/5/15 8:08
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

well krispys thoughts are intresting too... i think of


1Jn 2:19 [b]They went out from us[/b], but they were not of us: for [b]if[/b] they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/5/15 8:11Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The wrath of God is no longer a fear for those who are in Christ.



True, but dont think for a second that He doesnt chastise His children. A preacher friend of mine always says "Whom the Lord loveth He beats the [i]hell[/i] out of!"

Krispy

 2007/5/15 8:30
JesusIsMyLrd
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 119
Iowa, USA

 Re:

LOL Krispy!!!

i'll have to remember that!

So let's be obedient children, and not rebels (See old testament punishments on rebels as type and shadow of our day perhaps... just a thought, not theology!!) and let's let the hell out!!!

i appreciate your thoughts!!

with grins :-P
-nathan


_________________
Nathan

 2007/5/15 8:37Profile









 Re:

Quote:
True, but dont think for a second that He doesnt chastise His children. A preacher friend of mine always says "Whom the Lord loveth He beats the hell out of!"



I think you would agree that chastisment and wrath are two completely differnt things.

 2007/5/15 8:50





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