SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Christians that do not believe in the gifts and Unity

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 Next Page )
PosterThread
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Christians that do not believe in the gifts and Unity

Hi,
I want to share something that God showed me a few years ago.Basically during some study he showed me that their is a strong link between gifts and unity.It seems anytime gifts are listed unity is also mentioned.Since then I believe that the church can't have full unity without the gifts being in operation.Not alone that they have to be in correct operation.(everybody has to do what god called them to do;his/her own ministry and not try to perform a ministry they don't have)
Eph 4 states if you reverse the logic that without apostles,prophets etc we can not have "unity of the faith".Its not possible.You cant have it.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the[u][size=x-small][color=CC0000]unity of the faith[/color][/size][/u] , and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ

Cor 12 deals with unity of the gifts and if you read the entire chapter from the start its all unity(oneness).Paul explains how God puts the parts of the body together so as to avoid schism(the opposite of unity),some have one gift and others have another etc

12:23 And those [members] of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely [parts] have more abundant comeliness.

1Cr 12:24 For our comely [parts] have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that [part] which lacked:

1Cr 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the members should have the same care one for another.

1Cr 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

1Cr 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

1Cr 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1Cr 12:29 [Are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all workers of miracles?

1Cr 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

1Cr 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Their are different types of Unity for instance if a brother or sister gossips or back bits against another that can cause a disunity;I'm not talking about that kind of unity.
To those of you out there who don't believe the gifts are for today,then I say this to you either is unity.You can't have a fully correctly operating church without the gifts,yes we can still all get along together in love but we still will miss out.Unity is for today,the gifts are for today,love is for today,just perhaps revival is for today also.
Rgds Staff
P.S Their is a third less obvious listing of gifts but I cant find it off hand maybe someone could track it down

 2007/5/13 18:46Profile









 Re: Christians that do not believe in the gifts and Unity

Hi Staff

I see why you have started a new thread on this, as it doesn't deal only with obviously supernatural gifts like tongues and prophecy.

The third list is in Romans 12.

I think Ephesians 4 is talking not about the spiritual gifts, or offices themselves, but [i][b]the [u]people[/u] who are given to the Church as gifts.[/b][/i] Obviously these people would have to have certain gifts (whoever heard of a prophet who couldn't prophesy!)but the emphasis is those who are specially given to help build up the Church to maturity in Christ.

Corinthians is mostly about the right use of the spiritual gifts and the right attitude in their use. [edit], (an addition here) Because of the Corinthians' dis-unity and pride and party spirit Paul emphasises that it is the same Holy Spirit who gives each gift, and that one gift or office isn't more important than another, but all are essential for the propler functioning of the Body.[/edit]

Romans is more about the right use of gifts (supernatural or otherwise) by all members of a local church, not so much specific ministries of prophecy etc.

Unity... Yes, its all to do with the Body isn't it.

It's getting late, but I would like to ponder this some more soon.

Thanks for starting this thread

In Him

Jeannette

 2007/5/13 19:12
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Christians that do not believe in the gifts and Unity

Staff,

I'd love to see some unity somewhere, other than in a disaster when everyone in all the various churches is willing to reach out to help people.

What I don't see is how to bring about the unity.
Can it be done without tribulation to make us cling to one another? Or is there a way to use the gifts to create unity?

Do we have to have persecution to drive us underground, and into one another's arms? It seems so, yet I look at the gifts, and wonder, why can't we use them to do something!

[color=993300]1 Corinthians 12

1. Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9. To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10. To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11. But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[/color]

I, alas, think only persecution and trials will bring unity, and both are coming soon.

Sadly,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/5/13 19:46Profile









 Re:

With the cat on my shoulder, I am going to try to type this without moving him.

Back in the early 90's we had unity in our little church, love grew among us, it was wonderful. New people were coming into that nest of love and it was kind of a nursery atmosphere. We moved into the innercity, rented a hall in the heart of the city, we called it the "Rescue Centre". For months we moved together in a very wonderful way, God was moving on hearts, repentance was evident, the gifts of the Spirit were in operation etc.. It was Church/drop in centre, people from off the street would come in, the church grew. However, my Pastor who was stanch legalistic, allowed things to continue until he preached his damning legalistic teachings, it split the church wide open, he was left with just a handful of people. It never grew again after that, after his death, it still has the same handful. But those were great days for me, a brother and myself would pray night after night for revival. Oh we had some great prayer meetings, just the two of us. We believed Revival was imminent then, we believed that the LORD would use us to bring revival to our city. After looking back to those day, we were foolish to think such things. :-(

 2007/5/13 20:52
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re: Christians that do not believe in the gifts and Unity

I think true unity is actually the first sign of the Holy Spirit's presence and accepted sovereignty in a group of people. In Acts 2, unity preceded the more noted signs of His presence.
[color=000099]
Acts 2.1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, [b]they were all with one accord[/b] in one place.
Acts 2.2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
[/color]
Before unity can exist in a group of people, the Lord needs to be on the throne in the individual lives. If two people are totally submitted to God's Spirit, The same Spirit is having His way in both lives and there won't be any differences of interest, even if there are differences in opinion on trivial matters.
[color=000099]
James 4.1 From whence comes wars and fightings among you? come they not hence even the lust that war in your members?
...
James 4.7 Submit yourselves [b]therefore[/b] to God...
[/color]
Quoting Derek Prince, "When you see a 'therefore', find out what it's there for." :-)

PassingThru

 2007/5/13 21:41Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: The effect of One

Have you ever heard of a Pastor by the name of Bill Wilson? He runs an inter city childrens ministry in New York city. Any way it's a story that needs to be told and you , my dear brother need to hear it. I think it was when young Bill was 8 years old his mother, while in Florida left him at a street corner and told him to stay there and wait for her (she couldn't really handle motherhood). Three days later he was still at that street corner waiting when ONE christian man reached out to young Bill Wilson and took him to a christian center, I believe that's what it was. One person reaching into the life of one person. Now fast forward it to this day, who is Bill Wilson? He started a ministry to children 12 and under, and presently ministers to over 20,000 children every week in NY city, the method he employees to reach these children is being used in over 1000 places world wide. So let ask you, what you have labored for in prayer and do labor for, are you willing to allow God to touch you and use you once again for His glory? Will you be that one who will reach into the life of one??


_________________
D.Miller

 2007/5/13 22:24Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi Compliments,
Just to say with a split like the one you discribed not alone do you have people not in harmony but the gifts could not function properly so you would have dual difficulties.
Rgds Staff

 2007/5/14 17:24Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi Forrest,
Definitely I think the gifts can bring about unity.The gifts are not for today; its just not true!They are central.

Look at eph 4:12
For the perfecting of the saints means that if we are getting perfected surely that helps cause unity to break out.

Look at Eph 4:13
Its self explanatory till we all come in the unity of the faith.Just noticed as I am typing that it says "all" and "in the unity" rather than "to the" so maybe it does need some explaining

Look at eph 4:14
The gifts below or offices are so we be not tossed to and fro but are stable in our beliefs this can only help the cause of unity.


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Eph 4:14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
rgds staff

 2007/5/14 17:42Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi passing thru,
You have to ask yourself why we were they in one accord?It was because of the giftings of the apostles who knew they had to stay and wait on the lord,
RGDS staff

 2007/5/14 18:08Profile
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

Hi Staff

Quote:

You have to ask yourself why we were they in one accord?It was because of the giftings of the apostles who knew they had to stay and wait on the lord.



To lint pick, the apostles tarried in Jerusalem because Jesus instructed them to.

Unity came before the other manifestations. I believe unity comes as a result of each person being harmonized with God's Spirit, not as a result of the gifts themselves.

I for one do not have any distinct supernatural gifts operating in my life that cannot be explained in the natural. That doesn't mean I don't have God's Spirit and it doesn't exclude me from experiencing unity.

I believe the [u]baptism[/u] in the Holy Ghost is distinct event in itself and not necessarily part and parcel of being born again, but that's a topic for another thread.

That said I believe that genuine gifts, used exclusively for their God given purposes, are much needed today. The Bible urges us to seek them and I think we should be obedient in this.

PassingThru

 2007/5/14 18:57Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy