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RumbleBee
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Joined: 2007/4/13
Posts: 20
Houston, Texas

 Re:

Hi Lisa,

I truly appreciate what you've said.
It helps me put the issue in perspective and I thank you for your wisdom and advice.
Thank you so much for taking the time to consider our situation and respond so thoughtfully.

Carol

 2007/5/19 20:44Profile
RumbleBee
Member



Joined: 2007/4/13
Posts: 20
Houston, Texas

 Re:

To give everyone an update, my husband and I have an appointment with the pastor July 7, 2007.
He's read everything and we are meeting to discuss this directly.
We are in prayer every night at 8:00, along with some of our other church members, that feel the need for the Holy Spirit to move in our midst.
If you'd like please join us to pray at 8:00 for your church and ours. I must say, your prayers are most coveted.

Your sister in Christ,

Carol Eads

 2007/6/2 19:28Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: The View of the Church through a Dream

Carol,

This dream is very clear in it's symbolism, and should be shared with any who will listen to you.

I don't recall very many dreams at all, but when I recall a detailed one with lots of symbolism, I pay attention.

I will pray that your pastor will take it very seriously, since it is a very clear portrait of exactly what is going on.

As for not being in the last days, well, who can believe that with Israel back at home?

And frankly, I'd just as soon be home now, if only God would let me.

I hate living through all this, and what I see is what you have seen.

Oh, Jesus, come quickly!

Blessings,

Forrest


PS> Sorry for the acidental post earlier - I thought I had said something to the point the first time!


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/6/4 5:36Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: The View of the Church through a Dream

Hi everyone.

The Lord Jesus said


[b][color=660033]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [/color][/b]


He said His sheep follow Him.


God commanded the children of Israel to


"...make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:"


Saying also

"...it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring. That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God."


The Lord Jesus said His sheep hear His voice, and they follow Him.



But unto the children of Israel He said


[i]...that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring[/i]


But Christ says His sheep follow Him.



[b][color=000000]And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left. [/color][/b]


[b][color=660033]...and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.[/color][/b]


A living Head. A living Saviour. A living Lord.



_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/6/9 10:44Profile









 Re: Carol ...

Sis, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but I believe your dream was from The Lord, but may I just say there's two sides to most all prophecy.

Most times, in the O.T. it was for 'then' and for the 'future' at the same time. (So God could condense THE WORD to a size we could carry to Church :)

I appreciate your interpretation and am not taking away from it ... but again, I believe it's much broader than just for The Church.

It's for America and corperate/political/relious folks too and the people of this nation - besides Israel.

When even Dobson, of all people, have all these Messianic and Christian prophecy scholars on for a Whole Week, two weeks ago, saying we're going to war with Iran, in one way or another and using Eze. 38 and them saying (which I've heard from politcal sources before), that if that happens, "China" and "Russia" will join in against us and Israel ... That we and they will be hit. That God will save Israel, though later they have to deal with 'the man' that's coming in Christ's place, but we will take a blow - especially economically.
These are things I've heard for 20 yr.s from politcal folks also, so it's not just those prophecy folks and I'm not Pre-Trib.

We've, as a nation, have used the Chinese system of slave labor to produce most of our goods and have given them most of the technology they have, including war-technology.
Even all the Christian book store items are made there. Even Kinkade's stuff, etc. etc..
How very sad. Look at all of our flags being made there also ... and they are some of the worst on Christian persecution and civil rights violations. But the Christians have them make their 'stuff' and they are granted most favored nation statis, despite what they're doing there to the poor humans.

These are just a few verses that went with your dream, below.
There are many more verses that would go along with this judgment on US and why, but I can't post them all ... but I think you could piece things together from these, being pointed at us and Israel. I see them more pointed at us, but not because I'm Replacement Theology or anything. I explained about Israel's future.
We've had all the Power and the greatest merger of the 'elite in business' with government, though our motherland has too.
We're the ones who were suppose to be a Righteous nation and spread His Word and govern by His decrees and what have we done with "China", just for one ?

The "chinese lanterns" ... the "garden" party ... and as you said, these people you would think were dignitaries or the elite, that I agree would be both in this nation.

These verses show the 'merger' between big-business, politics and the Church or those called by His name, who have gone apostate, putting their trust in Princes, as the Word says and love this present evil world and the 'things' in it ... comforts, etc..

Heavy stuff sis. If you are a 'patriot', I pray you can understand where our real citizenship really is. Preach The Word and righteousness, Amen to that.

I'm not one to believe that very many 'dreams' are worth much. But hold on to His Word alone and stay humble.

For prayer ...

Jer 5:4 Therefore I said, Surely these are poor; they are foolish: for they know not the way of the LORD, nor the judgment of their God. Jer 5:5 I will get me unto the great men, and will speak unto them; for they have known the way of the LORD, and the judgment of their God: but these have altogether broken the yoke, and burst the bonds. Jer 5:6 Wherefore a lion out of the forest shall slay them, and[b] a wolf of the evenings shall spoil them[/b], a leopard shall watch over their cities: every one that goeth out thence shall be torn in pieces: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased.
Jer 5:12 They have belied the LORD, and said, It is not he; neither shall evil come upon us; neither shall we see sword nor famine:
Jer 5:13 And the prophets shall become wind, and the word is not in them: thus shall it be done unto them.
Jer 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
Jer 5:15 Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the LORD: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.
Jer 5:16 Their quiver is as an open sepulcher, they are all mighty men.
Jer 5:17 And they shall eat up thine harvest, and thy bread, which thy sons and thy daughters should eat: they shall eat up thy flocks and thine herds: they shall eat up thy vines and thy fig trees: they shall impoverish thy fenced cities, wherein thou trustedst, with the sword.
Jer 5:18 Nevertheless in those days, saith the LORD, I will not make a full end with you.
Jer 5:19 And it shall come to pass, when ye shall say, Wherefore doeth the LORD our God all these things unto us? then shalt thou answer them, Like as ye have forsaken me, and served strange gods in your land, so shall ye serve strangers in a land that is not yours.
Jer 5:20 Declare this in the house of Jacob, and publish it in Judah, saying,
Jer 5:21 Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
Jer 5:22 Fear ye not me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?
Jer 5:23 But this people hath a revolting and a rebellious heart; they are revolted and gone.
Jer 5:24 Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.
Jer 5:25 Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withheld good things from you.
Jer 5:26 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.
Jer 5:27 As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich.
Jer 5:28 They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.
Jer 5:29 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?
Jer 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Eze 22:24 Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.
Eze 22:25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
Eze 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they showed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
Eze 22:27 Her princes in the midst thereof are like [b]wolves[/b] ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.
Eze 22:28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered mortar, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.
Eze 22:29 The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.
Eze 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.
Eze 22:31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD.

Zep 3:1 Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!
Zep 3:2 She obeyed not the voice; she received not correction; she trusted not in the LORD; she drew not near to her God.
Zep 3:3 Her princes within her are roaring lions; her judges are [b]evening wolves;[/b] they gnaw not the bones till the morrow.
Zep 3:4 Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law.
Zep 3:5 The just LORD is in the midst thereof; he will not do iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame.
Zep 3:6 I have cut off the nations: their towers are desolate; I made their streets waste, that none passeth by: their cities are destroyed, so that there is no man, that there is none inhabitant.
Zep 3:7 I said, Surely thou wilt fear me, thou wilt receive instruction; so their dwelling should not be cut off, howsoever I punished them: but they rose early, and corrupted all their doings.

Hab 1:8 Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and [b]are more fierce than the evening wolves[/b]: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat.

Could have posted whole chpt.s but this is enough I believe. Was hard enough to post these, for many reasons.


Shalom!

 2007/6/9 12:48









 Re:

Quote:

RumbleBee wrote:
To give everyone an update, my husband and I have an appointment with the pastor July 7, 2007.
He's read everything and we are meeting to discuss this directly.
We are in prayer every night at 8:00, along with some of our other church members, that feel the need for the Holy Spirit to move in our midst.
If you'd like please join us to pray at 8:00 for your church and ours. I must say, your prayers are most coveted.

Your sister in Christ,
Carol Eads


Carol,

I printed it out and reread your dream and then reread it again. I'd like to ask you to prayfully consider some questions that I have. You may not like me when you've read all this but I believe it needs to be said and I cannot be with the crowd on this one and urge you on with this meeting.

First, what is it exactly that you want your pastor to solve at this meeting? Or agree to? I noticed several quotes from your dream intrepretation:
The shepherd of the flock has abandoned them...
The local church has been is is being neglected...
Some of our congregations have lost their shepherd because he...
Although he may be sincere, he has led his congregation down the wrong path through faulty teaching...
Not enough of the flock is grounded in...
The church used to have absolute boundaries...

Just so you know, I do NOT disagree with these statements!! I just wanted to humbly ask if you think that YOUR pastor can solve all the problems above? Please remember that the Lord gave YOU this dream, if He wanted the pastor to do something different, He would have given it to your pastor.

This was your dream and you can't force it on anyone else or get upset it they don't accept it. I'm not saying that your pastor will or won't accept it but when we call for a meeting we need a solid idea of what exactly we expect from the other person and the outcome we want from that meeting. Has the Lord told you what to expect or what to do in that meeting? I beg you to only set a meeting AFTER the Lord shows you or tells you to make it.

Secondly, did the Lord ask you to do something specific with this dream? I may be wrong but I think that most times the Lord wants to see if we will be faithful to to just pray. Because I believe that if the enemy can get us worked up and rush in about how our pastor needs to accept this or that and if he doesn't, then yada yada yada is going to happen... If satan can do that, then he has us where he wants us and not praying about what the Lord wants us to be interceding about.

I believe that God gave you the dream, no doubt about that but (and I'm probably the lone voice here but) I'm concerned that satan is trying to use this dream to destroy 1. your witness 2. destroy and ruin your relationship with your local church and 3. also with your pastor.

Third, this one is personal but what part in all of this does your husband have? Is he as upset as you are or will he be the silent partner in the meeting with your pastor? If he is the silent partner, you might ruin his witness as well.

Please let God be disturbed about the state of the church, being disturbed is not our job. Our job is to love one another, pray, believe and trust! I do not doubt my God for a minute, His Bride will be ready when He comes!!! I'm not saying that I don't get worked up about all this, I do. The reason I know about getting worked up over an issue is because I have been there and lost a whole family of believers over an issue that I just knew I was right on (because the Lord showed me!!) but I didn't WAIT and let God work, I rushed in and stood for My Jesus and did all the work for Him and lost a church family all the while my ex-husband was a silent partner. Any witness he had was gone because he couldn't control his wife. Do I agree with that? No, but had I prayed and prayed and prayed and said, "God, I refuse to move until I see You move, period, or You tell me to move." I wouldn't have rushed in there. This is one of the ways how the enemy chews us up and spits us out. And then we wonder where the Lord was.

PS: There is a great sermon by J. Oswald Sanders titled, [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=11647&commentView=itemComments]Jericho Relationships[/url]. It's a keeper!

Take care, Carol. Please know that this was all said to warn in love.

 2007/6/9 17:20
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone.


I would like to connect with something that Intens4Him shared here


"...but had I prayed and prayed and prayed and said, "God, I refuse to move until I see You move, period, or You tell me to move." I wouldn't have rushed in there. This is one of the ways how the enemy chews us up and spits us out. And then we wonder where the Lord was."



Before this I had qouted from Numbers chapter 15, verse 38-40. This seems to be connected with what had happened in chapter 14. Verse 44 stands out especially.



Grace be with you all,

Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/6/10 14:40Profile
RumbleBee
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Joined: 2007/4/13
Posts: 20
Houston, Texas

 Re:

Dear GrannieAnnie,

Thank you for posting what you did.
I am fully aware that this can be applied to the world as a whole.
For about 40+ years, I've seen a gradual deterioration of standards, not only in the world, but in the church (our church movement, for example). I believe the two are directly related.
The pressures from the world have resulted in the church accepting far more than it's been willing to, or should have accepted, at any time in history. The only way this could have happened is that the church has drifted farther and farther away from God's laws. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, so it can't be that he is the one that has moved or drifted.
Before we can go out into the world to change it, we must start in the church. The Bible teaches repentence and admonishes to stay on the narrow path. Unfortunately, it will call for some degree of starting all over again because of how far it has drifted away from the Word of God.

I appreciate the time you took to read and respond to the dream I posted. Please feel free to apply it in whatever manner God calls you to.

In Christ,

Carol Eads

 2007/6/10 16:32Profile
RumbleBee
Member



Joined: 2007/4/13
Posts: 20
Houston, Texas

 Re:

Dear Intense4Him,

In response to your post, I shall answer your questions in succession. But first, I wish to thank you for writing and gently warning about situations that can go awry. Your warning has been noted.

In answer to your first question, [i][b]“what is it exactly that you want your pastor to solve at this meeting?”[/b][/i]

We are meeting the pastor of our church to discuss the types of sermon information he has been presenting to the congregation in light of what the Bible says. Sermons that don’t preach Jesus Christ and the full gospel are not sermons at all, and serve no purpose to bring people into the Kingdom.

The only thing to be solved is to have the gospel preached, for that is the Great Commission.

Yes, God gave me the dream. He has done the same with countless others. I believe this one is a warning. I don’t know the reasons He chooses to impart certain things to certain individuals. God uses those who are willing to be used, and He reproves us and draws us back as well, in various ways, and through various people. Leaders are not exempt.


In answer to your second question: [i][b]“did the Lord ask you to do something specific with this dream?”[/b][/i]

We are all ministers and are, therefore, charged to challenge each other to stay on the narrow path. Admittedly, no one person can claim the corner on all knowledge concerning spiritual matters. We have prayed, and still are in prayer, searched the scriptures, have taken notes, have gone back to listen to countless messages from the pastor, and have sought counsel before anything else was done. We do not take this lightly, and we are going directly to the brother (no matter the station he holds) to discuss the matter – which is of Biblical import. If we are to be burdened for souls, then we must do what we have been led to do by the Holy Spirit, and that is to approach the pastor.



In answer to your final question, [i][b]“what part in all of this does your husband have?”[/b][/i]

I appreciate this question because I am one who believes that the man should be the spiritual leader in the home. My husband and I are partners in all we do. Contrary to what you may perceive, it was not my idea to post the dream or forward it to any particular person. It took quite a while for me to even tell my husband because I was, frankly, afraid of the dream itself. He is the one, along with others wiser in counsel than I, who has encouraged me to share it.



I disagree with you on one point: [i][b]“let God be disturbed about the state of the church, being disturbed is not our job." [/b][/i]

I do not believe we are not to be disturbed at the things God is disturbed about. We do love this pastor and pray for him, but if we do not let him know the things that concern us, faith and love without actively being involved otherwise is for naught.



Thank you again for your words of admonishment.

They have been taken into careful consideration and I appreciate your willingness to share your concerns with me.



Carol

 2007/6/11 13:34Profile
RumbleBee
Member



Joined: 2007/4/13
Posts: 20
Houston, Texas

 Re: Update: 7/11/07

First things first; we are very thankful for everyone's prayers in this matter. Please continue to keep our pastor, the Church, and us in your prayers.

We met with our pastor last Saturday, and brought our concerns to him about his ministry and the spiritual direction of the Church, as the Lord had laid it on our heart.

Our meeting lasted just over two hours, and attended by the lead member of the board, and we brought our own silent witness.
The meeting went better than we could have expected.

As difficult as it was to discuss most of the subject matter, we were able to address the majority of our concerns revolving around the importance of his presenting the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and just how much his flock needs direction, and almost as important, for us to be fed by the Holy Sprit.

I am sure this was bitter medicine on his part, but with love, he took all we had to give him and said he would reflect on it and pray for God’s guidance.

We now are continuing in prayer for him and our Church, and look for God to move in our midst.

Again, keep us in your prayers.

Vince (Carol’s husband)

 2007/7/11 23:07Profile





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