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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : forgiveness without repentance?

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 forgiveness without repentance?

There are a couple instances in the bible that do not seem to fit the normal "repent and believe" standard of salvation.

There are a few time's when Jesus forgives people their sins with no mention of repentance. You could say these men had faith but sometimes you cant even say it's their faith but maybe the faith of their friends. Let me give you some examples:

2Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."

It does not say the man on the mat had faith but seem's to imply the ones who brought the man had faith. Yet Jesus forgave this mans sins. Even if this man had faith as well Jesus forgave him without any mention of repentance.

Another example along the same lines:

19When they could not find a way to do this because of the crowd, they went up on the roof and lowered him on his mat through the tiles into the middle of the crowd, right in front of Jesus. 20When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven."



Jesus saw THEIR faith. He forgave this mans sins with no mention of repentance.

Here's another example a little different though:
10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.


With this lady Jesus says he does not condemn her. However, He does tell her to go and sin no more. It's interesting though because she did not ask for forgivenss nor was she seeking Jesus. She was brought to Him. If she had not been brought to Him she would still be in the act of adultery and non of this would have happened.

So...I'm throwing these out because I would like to know your thoughts on these. These are clear example of the Lord forgiving people their sins without them seeking repentance. Now, I personally always preach repentance and believe that believers will and do depart from sin but these scriptures are challenging. I would like to hear others thoughts on these.

 2007/5/9 11:54
deathdancer
Member



Joined: 2005/11/19
Posts: 33
South Africa

 Re: forgiveness without repentance?

Hi sscot,
My thoughts on this interesting question.

Repent and believe... Grace comes before repentance and belief. And without any conditions. How else are we to feel the need for repentance?.What faith did Paul have before his conversion?These people you mentioned could have been struggling with their sins and Christ answered their deepest concerns on this issue.To have faith as a condition of forgiveness seems a works issue.Faith follows grace and repentance follows faith. The greater the faith and belief the more need for repentance.
I am always sinning,always repenting and will only be free of this the day I die.My only hope is in the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
Greetings.
deathdancer.


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Trevor Collins

 2007/5/9 13:25Profile









 Re: forgiveness without repentance?

Sscott,

Wow, bro. (I'm assuming its bro) what a great, great observation. What a great question to ask of those passages.

I am interested in reading the responses to your question, and I hope folks will be civil and see that you are not saying there is no need for repentance.

At the very least, your observation causes us to look away from ourselves and to look to Christ...for everything...even repentance.

----------------

Wow, the woman caught in adultery was brought to Jesus, by her accusers! Is that not a picture of the law...the only thing the law can do is accuse and condemn us and leave us there for dead, but through Christ comes Grace and Truth.

Truth - He did not pass over her sin. He dealt with it head on, and yet...

Grace - He granted her full pardon, and because of Jesus' Grace she was able to go and live a life of repentance.

 2007/5/9 15:20
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: forgiveness without repentance?

Quote:
It does not say the man on the mat had faith but seem's to imply the ones who brought the man had faith. Yet Jesus forgave this mans sins. Even if this man had faith as well Jesus forgave him without any mention of repentance.


I know this is the usual interpretation of this passage but I am not so sure. The question is was Christ talking about the faith of four men or of five... when he saw their faith he said to the man...

Personally, I think it was five. For two reasons, although there may be more.

The first is that this man allowed his 'friends' to take him up the outside stairs onto the roof, then watched as they pulled up the roofing and then allowed himself to be winched down into the room below. I think he might have said something if he was not in agreement with the actions of his friends. ;-)

The second is this very topic which you have raised. Why would Christ 'impose' forgiveness upon someone who felt he had no need for it. What did Christ know about this man's sickness that we don't know? Why begin to talk about sins when the man, as far as most people may have known, was just paralysed. Is it possible that Christ knew of some connection between this man's past and his current sickness? “Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14 KJVS)In your second case forgiveness is not really mentioned. As with quite a few stories in the NT is not 'finished' in the way of a novel but leaves lots of ends untied. The Lord doesn't specifically 'forgive' this women but simply says that he doesn't 'sentence' her. [url=http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=8&verse=11&strongs=2632&page=1&flag_full=1]katakrinO[/url] is really one stage further on that 'judging'. It is the guilty verdict and the pronouncement of the sentence. He refused to do this but that in itself is not the same as saying he 'forgave' her.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/5/9 15:48Profile
JennRich
Member



Joined: 2006/7/17
Posts: 140
Alabama

 Re: forgiveness without repentance?

George Mueller had a very interesting salvation experience. . . . he had lived a life of sin as a young man, but was saved after attending a Bible study and hearing/meditating on the Word of God. However, at the time he was NOT overwhelmed with a sense of his great sin. He was later, though -- a few weeks or months after he was saved; only then did it begin to sink in how offensive his sin was before a holy God. Then he exhibited true repentance.

This account comes from Pierson's autobiography of Mueller.


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Jennifer Richardson

 2007/5/9 17:34Profile
lightwalker
Member



Joined: 2007/4/27
Posts: 52
Missouri

 Re: forgiveness without repentance?

Hi there! You know I have thought of this many times. It is my own experience That when I came to know the Lord I did not feel the need of repentence, The need I had was of a savoir and He saved me, then when I recieved the Holy spirit I knew about the need to repent. I do not believe that an un regenerate person can truly know about repentence. Unless you are born of God you cannot see the kingdom of God. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal what we are and what we need to repent of. It seems the more I know God the more I see the need for repentence, the more He shows me my inmost hidden sin..dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. I think it is impossible for a person without the power of Gods Spirit to repent...


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Melody

 2007/5/9 19:08Profile
bb6868
Member



Joined: 2007/5/3
Posts: 6
Staples, ON

 Re: forgiveness without repentance?

these are my thoughts to your question.
in the instance where men are brought to Jesus and he says: and seeing there faith, he said unto them thy sins be forgiven thee... it may be quoted a little cifferent in the gospels, but, when a lost person comes to Jesus Christ and sees his need of salvation and realizes he is lost. the 1st thing we would tell them is(this is summed up)they need to believe God, that includes having faith in God as we believe Him. and on that basis we ask the Lord for forgiveness for our sins and to be washed in the blood, to be saved. i think we often have a mentality that in leading a soul to christ we need them to repent of individual sins and if they forgot 1 in the process, they arent quite saved yet, rather repentance is a fruit or result of believing God and having faith in his word. I dont have anything against confession of individual sins, i believe it has its place, but it isnt a prerequsite to being saved. God looks at our faith and says, your faith has made you whole. i dont know whether these sick men brought to Jesus were "saved" yet. but God must have seen there faith and honoured that. i hope you see my heart and i hope this makes sense. correct me if you think im in error


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Billy Bergen

 2007/5/9 23:08Profile
Smokey
Member



Joined: 2005/2/21
Posts: 417
Edmonton Alberta Cda.

 Re:


The answer is most likely something like this:

Jam 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Blessings Greg


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Greg

 2007/5/9 23:17Profile









 Re: forgiveness without repentance?

Repentance means to "change one's mind" or change direction, not "merely" being sorry for sins.

I think it takes different forms depending on the individual. Some need to be convinced of sin first, before they will accept Christ. But that's not true of everyone.

I was so guilt-ridden already that being sorry for sins wouldn't have done anything except bring despair! So the Lord "drew me with cords of love" instead.

But there was no doubt my life was changed - for ever!

Real repentance for sin (aside from guilt and remorse) came much later, when the Lord knew I could cope with it without doubting my salvation or getting in the Slough of Despond!

But there are others who need the shock of being brought to see that they are "sinners in the hands of an angry God".

I don't think we can generalise.

Only that these days the Gospel is usually so watered down that we hardly ever hear sermons on sin and the need to repent.

Jeannette

 2007/5/10 18:09
HopePurifies
Member



Joined: 2007/4/12
Posts: 181
Georgia, USA

 Re: forgiveness without repentance?

I was searching for some information on this...
I am very very confused.
You see, when I read the Bible, it seems very clear that repentance comes first. Maybe not every scripture is explicit on it, but I mean the spirit of the words of scripture says to me "repent and believe". And so when my pastor started neglecting repentance (or when I noticed he was) I went to talk to him about it. I really felt like God led me to tell the pastor that he needed to preach on repentance.
There is a lot of worldliness in my church even though everyone says they repented. I feel like they don't get taught what repentance is.
I professed my faith before I repented of my sins, but then I lived in sin for about a year. How could that be saving faith if I just kept sinning?
What is believing in Christ if we don't turn from our sins? Just escaping judgment? Just "loving God" as I hear sometimes?
The pastor thinks that if he makes everyone fall in love with Christ, that they will just repent automatically. Even though he preaches that hell exists I was never sure why I deserved it until someone else explained it. Am I being nitpicky or is it the big deal I think it is?


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Melanie

 2007/5/27 22:55Profile





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