Krispy wrote:

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Sandra Miller

When I was in school, and a similar question came up. I thought my Bible teacher said something very interesting

"When two moral laws are in conflict, you choose the one that shows the most love."

Thought I would share :)

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James Olson

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Aaron Ireland

Here is an older, related thread;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5862&forum=36&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=1]Is it ever okay to lie?[/url]

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Mike Balog

If I understand early church hispory on this issue where people denied their LORD to save their hide, these traitors were barred from church membership. This was also an issue during the Reformation era when people denied who they were. The point is that Christians in earlier eras took this matter very seriously so we do well to do likewise.

While we may think we would never deny who we are to save our skin, we should also realize we do not know how strong we will be at that point, should it happen. "Whosoever thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall" comes to my mind. So the solution is that we need to walk close with GOD NOW and not think we can muster up the strength and will power to be strong when we are put to the test.

My thoughts...
ginnyrose

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Sandra Miller

Yea thats correct ginnyrose, I've read about such a thing in 'the pilgrim church'. I also read about a guy who was given this question and he denied that He followed the Lord. But he was heartbroken after this and draw closer to God. Years later he was again confronted to confess Jesus or to deny Him. This guy became a martyr this time.

This does remind me a bit about Peter in the Bible who denied Jesus 3 times.

Good insight about the issue of lying guys!

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Jonathan Veldhuis

Thanks for the link crsschk!

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Jonathan Veldhuis

I've read this thread now, and the link Mike Balog put to the older thread, because since a week past Saturday, I have been unable to escape the same question because of a dream I had that night.

Further, today, I found myself wondering how can we be sooo hazy about what 'a lie' is, if we are to keep the Church truly pure both from being defiled, or from falling for true lies, ourselves?


That Saturday, I was at a wedding during the day. To my surprise, the leader of the church in that village which I had attended for a year, and had parted from because of the unwillingness of that leader to allow the Spirit to move amongst its members (There is a much longer story here - twenty five years long - what happened to me had happened to others previously.) approached me with surprise that I was still in touch with the groom's family. He then went on to bring up the topic of Replacement Theology. (I will revive the thread of that name to post a few comments there.) I shared my perspective, countering some of what he was saying, mainly with New Testament scripture. Eventually, he slid away into the gathering on the church lawn.


So, that night, he was in the dream as a small character who was putting a large, very fat wrinkly black slug onto a huge half of a slice of bread. The other half of the slice was then used to conceal the slug, and the thing was cut up into narrow strips, partly to make them small enough to eat, but partly to conceal the content of the sandwich. I woke up not having been able to bring myself to eat the first strip which was offered to me. I was nauseated. Which, incidentally, is how I felt latterly at that man's church, before I finally stopped going to the trouble of driving to it only to find I couldn't bring myself to go in.

It may be important for you to understand that I was one of a number of adults who had to stop going to that church, all of whom were receiving warning of different kinds, from the Spirit. One person not directly connected, had had a vision of a large reptile hovering above it. It seemed nothing we could do as individuals could break this hold, and unity in the form of an alternative local gathering of saints was also difficult to obtain, through a certain amount of confusion in people's minds, as to the 'spiritual' way forward.

It is only now, as I've begun to understand how many different gospels there are out there, that I've begun to understand the patterns I now see.


So, ten days since the dream, I am asking myself 'What is the lie represented by the slug?

Is it a whole doctrine?

Is it a system such as Cessationism?

Is it doubt of the written word of God?

Is it the commercialisation of faith in the writing of books and the offering of various 'aids' to 'enrich' one's Christian 'life', offered at a [u]monetory price[/u]?'


Maybe the 'lies' that distress God can all be rolled up under the title of 'religion', which is not as purely practised as James defines it.