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are we here trying to comprimise a sin?

No, we're not at all.

Let me ask you, Suddenly... if you were hiding Jews in your attic in Nazi Germany, and the SS troops came to your door and asked you, "Yes or no... are you hiding Jews anywhere on your property?" ...what would you do?

Would you consider it a sin to say "no"?


 2007/5/4 11:04

Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA


I find it interesting that in the KJV, he Ninth Commandment is worded "Thou shall not bear false witness". Kind of creates an illusion to perjury. My understanding of what "false witness" might be, is any communication that fails to accurately portray the facts.

I was just about to write this very thing when I saw you had already done so.

Something I would like to point out is that bearing false witness has two implications. 1) If we have witnessed something and say something different than what we have witnessed. 2) If we have not witnessed something at all, and yet give a witness as though we have seen it.

In regards to the law, there is something that we must remember that applies to all laws. This is central to Christianity. Aaron touched on this by saying that it depends on our motivation.

The law was given to humanity, not to control us, but to help us. The law was given to show us our sin. If we were perfect, we would have obeyed the law naturally. As such, the law would have been pointless. If everyone obeyed the law precisely, then we would not have to write down and command it. However, the Lord did write it and command it because He knew we would break it.

This becomes apparent in the example of the Sabbath. When accused of breaking the Sabbath, Jesus said in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath."

Humanity was created for God. From the beginning, we were created to worship God and love God. This means that the law was not given to control us because we were supposed to be controlled by the Spirit.

When it comes to the law, in order to obey it, humanity must first interpret it. Obviously, when God gave the law, He had a certain purpose or meaning behind it. The purpose of the Sabbath was to provide a day of rest where we could delight in the Lord. However, this good purpose of God could be used for evil. The Pharisees took the law to be black and white. The Law says do not work on the Sabbath, and so, under no conditions is a person to work on the Sabbath. Such an interpretation disregards God's original intention.

This is where the law fails humanity. The law cannot change the sinful nature in us. Yes, the law said do not work on the Sabbath. But this was for God's good purpose. However, because man is sinful and evil, we took this good purpose and twisted it for our own sinful nature. As such, the Pharisees used it to accuse Jesus of sin. They used the law, which was good, and twisted it for their own evil purposes.

As human beings, we lack the ability to fully interpret the law, especially when we are far from God. To interpret the law correctly, we must discern what the Lord intended.

When Jesus Christ died on the cross, however, He resolved this issue. We no longer need to interpret the law with our mind. Our goal is not to obey the law. Our goal is to be controlled by the Holy Spirit.

This is significant and important. We are controlled by the Holy Spirit, and not by our own mental understanding of what is right or wrong.

When we are controlled by the Spirit ( in other words, ruled by God), then we fulfill the law naturally without having to think about it. Our only thought is about God. We delight in God and seek His will. We continually surrender to Jesus so that He may control us by the Holy Spirit.

When you ask, "What is a lie?"....I must be inclined to ask this question: Why do you ask?

We could debate for years what is lie. What did God mean when He commanded us not to bear false witness? What was God's purpose for saying this? What was His intention and will?

Some people might say, "God said don't lie, and that means don't lie ever!" However, anyone who says such a thing is not obeying God, they are obeying their own interpretation of the law. They are creating a black and white rule that is above or greater than God. Only God can say, "This is what a lie is. This is what I meant by that commandment."

If you are trying to create a black and white statement statement to apply to all situations, then you are endanger of entering into sin. You are worshiping something other than God. Our primary goal should be to follow Jesus by complete surrender or submission to His authority as established by the Holy Spirit within us. We should not seek to obey by our own understanding of the law.

You do not need to interpret the law or mentally know what a lie is any longer if you are in Christ. If you wish to please God, then all you need to do is be controlled by the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit controls you, then you have pleased God. However, if you try to please God with your own mental understanding of the law, then you will sin. You have placed your own wisdom above God.

Proverbs 3:5(NAS)
Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.

In Christ,

Blake Kidney

 2007/5/4 11:23Profile

Joined: 2007/4/29
Posts: 3


That is a very different situation if you lied to protect the righteous.

But if you are covering up a youth pastor who has a double life. You all love his day life as a sweet loving pastor, and the other side of his life is a serial sexual predator.
Then he get caught with one of his victim, and he lied that is the only one time he did it, and he blamed the last victim for what he did without facing her deep long standing problem. And he lied that he will never do it again.

He lied all the way trying to get everyone off his back, and now he is planning another victim.

If you keep covering him up, because you love one side of him. Without thinking about all the past victims and future victims. You will have blood on your hands.

You are also deceived by him.

 2007/5/4 11:25Profile

Joined: 2006/9/27
Posts: 85


That's so interesting, I was just wondering about this. I had been reading the story of Bruther Yun and came to a part where he was captured by the PSB and feigned madness and was soon released. He said he felt the Lord telling him to do so and remembered how King David had done the same in the Bible.

 2007/5/4 12:37Profile

Joined: 2007/4/30
Posts: 2


George Platt,

I dont think you are no David, he did not lie, and he truely repent, and he did not lie to blame to undermine his mistakes.He took full responsiblity of what he did.

You are actually like Saul, he blamed others for his fault, in the end he will fall on his sword and kill himself.

 2007/5/4 12:46Profile


Suddenly... I'm confused by your post. Who is George Platt? And who are you responding to?


 2007/5/4 12:48


But if you are covering up a youth pastor who has a double life. You all love his day life as a sweet loving pastor, and the other side of his life is a serial sexual predator.

I dont think anyone here is suggesting that this would be ok. I'd like to think we're all rational thinkers here. :-)


 2007/5/4 12:50


Krispy said

Let me ask you, Suddenly... if you were hiding Jews in your attic in Nazi Germany, and the SS troops came to your door and asked you, "Yes or no... are you hiding Jews anywhere on your property?" ...what would you do?

Would you consider it a sin to say "no"?

Sorry to do this Krispy...

If Martial Law were declared in the U.S. and all "subsersives" that could be linked to terrorism (ie, fundamentalist Muslims, fundamentalist Christians) were rounded up... would you deny you were a Christian?

What if they were shooting everyone who were remotely religious. Would you deny Christ to save your life?

Would Jesus forgive us for this "little white lie" to save our life?

 2007/5/4 13:06


No I would not. I've been in life and death situations, so I do know what it's like to be in situations similar to that.

But my denying Him or not denying Him is not what makes me a saved man. A Catholic may die for his faith, but he is not saved because of that any more than a Muslim would be saved for dying for Allah. We are saved by faith alone, and not works, lest any man should boast.

God doesnt make exceptions to the rule based on bravery at the end of a gun.

If He did, shoot me now and lets get this over with.


 2007/5/4 13:41

Joined: 2007/4/30
Posts: 1

 Re: What is a lie?

Interesting posts.
Another verse that showed some insight to good balance in truth is 1 Sam 16. The Lord sends Samuel to Jesse's to annoint David and Sam is afraid Saul will be mad. So in 2 & 3 God says "But Samel said "How can I go? When Saul hears of it, he will kill me." And the Lord said, "Take a heifer with you , and say "I have come to sacrifice to the Lord."
And you shall invite Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will show you what you shall do; and you shall anoint for Me the one whom I designate to you."

Of course we all have to judge our motives at all times; but I learned that we do not owe all truth to all people. God arranged circumstances so that Samuel had a public purpose he could share and felt no need for him to share private info with the King.

On the WWII thing ... that is a hard one; perhaps it is which sin is worse. Helping the enemy kill innocent people or lying to protect them. I have no doubt that God would lead us in that moment of our need.

Passing Thru - Good verse. It affects me the same as it does you. I meditate on that verse a lot :)

 2007/5/4 15:56Profile

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