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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Cleansing of the Sanctuary

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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Cleansing of the Sanctuary

[b]Disclaimer:[/b] I have been holding onto this for a few months now, awaiting the right time to put it forward. What I present here began as a response to an accusation of antisemitism, directed against myself. The data presented was literally stumbled across, through a series of coincidences. Much of it can be confirmed at Wikipedia or the like, and I welcome any attempts to verify the data contained, within.

This is in no way an attempt at prognosticating the future, but merely some observations that I have made, as to Israel and the church, in light of prophetic Scripture. I welcome your scrutiny, however I only ask that you consider the observations in light of the evidence. It is very rough around the edges. The reason being that it was written over a period of four or so months, with many interruptions.

Interestingly, for those who know of [url=]my family situation[/url], my first observations regarding Seventh Day Adventist doctrine, came to my attention immediately before my wife began to take her turn for the worse. The letter you are about to read, was written mostly under the anguish of the strains associated with having your family hurled into such disarray. As a result, the suffering spoken of, has been tasted in finite form.

The catalyst for posting this at this time has been the current wave of discussion about the Book of Revelation. As much as this is not an attempt at being "prophetic", the fact that it deals with prophetic themes causes me to ponder whether or not to consider this to be a "prophetic paper" (between that and the means in which the material came, as it was required, for entry into the letter). Anyway, I'll leave you to decide.


Aaron Ireland

 2007/4/28 10:12Profile

Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: Cleansing of the Sanctuary


I was going to send you a copy of Art Katz' 'Holocaust Book', but I considered your point that it was a big ask to expect you to read a whole book, when you had only asked of me was to watch a short video. I've decided instead to respond in my own words. Allow me to establish my viewpoint based on Scripture, so that you can work out whether or not you want to read the book.

Before I do, firstly I wish to point out a flaw in your observations of Israel. You stated that your dealings with Israel have been pleasant, and I can understand why. You see, you came to them out of concern for their soul, and helped them to see the fact that God hadn't rejected them as a people (something that Paul firmly established in the Book of Romans). It is not loving the one that comes in peace that is impressive, that is just normal human nature.

[b]Cultural Distinctions[/b]
When I mentioned Israel's arrogance, I was referring to a global perception based on cultural behavioural stereotypes. Similar to how English people tend to appear to be serious, private and prudish, Australians tend to be easy going and lazy, Greeks passionate and quick tempered, and Vietnamese angry and impatient. The odd thing is that people from each of these cultures can display these traits amongst their own people, and still convey a message of love and appreciation to each other, while outsiders can feel uncomfortable and even rejected around them (I sometimes consider that these behavioural variations could be symptomatic of the confounding of speech after Babel, as they seem to convey things that others misunderstand, and can be far more divisive than mere words).

Granted these cultural distinctions are mere tendencies, and there are exceptions to the rule, but unless deliberate attempts are made to change them, they tend to be the norm. And note that these traits have good sides and bad, and cultural acceptance requires that the 'bad' be taken with the good, in spite of the irritation that can result from being around these differences.

In light of this, what is so bad about the Jews being seen as arrogant? It would seem that almost every Jew excels in their chosen field. They seem to ooze confidence and superior intellect. They have been responsible for discovering the Theory of Relativity and Nuclear Fission (Incidentally, Oppenheimer lamented over the "A bomb's" destructive purpose, and expressed this by quoting a passage out of the Baghata Vita during the Trinity Test. The passage he quoted referred to the personification of death being ushered into the world). They are the 'Steven Spielberg's and the 'Aaron Spelling's.

Consider even the stand out Christian speakers of today, who have brought to our attention long neglected truth's. Names like Art Katz, James Jacob Prasch and of course, one who is always being accused of arrogance by his opponents, Ray Comfort, are definitely amongst those who come to mind, all of whom are Jews. As a side, I have heard both Katz and Prasch refer to themselves as "dumb jerks", acknowledging an arrogant tendency that they are constantly tempted to yield to, and acknowledging it as a cultural inheritance).

[b]Jewish Cause For Offence [/b]
Sure, you can see this arrogance as "national pride", which to some degree, is an admirable quality, but surely you can see how their heathen enemies can be chafed by this, even if it is at times out of pure jealousy? And surely you could appreciate the plausibility of this being exasperated by means of "God's chosen people" responding to this jealousy with a cynical arrogance? To be honest, that is what I heard in that "Open letter to the world" video. If was like, "Okay, say what ever you want about what we have done, but you started it." Doesn't that seem tragically immature to you? If you don't think so, then how would you feel if the Arabs did likewise in the same circumstance? Essentially they could say that Israel was pre-emptive, by invading the Canaanite lands and having the audacity to blame their "genocidal conquest" [sic] on God (more on this later) (see the Book of Joshua).

God in Scripture clearly pointed out what would cause persecution to break out against them. Deuteronomy is where it was plainly laid out before Israel, as they were about to enter the promised land (Deut 27-30), and in Joshua Israel went on to "ratify to proposal" (Josh 24:19-25) that God put forth, thereby consenting to the conditions and means of their chastening.

[b]Mandate To Flee From ldolatry[/b]
Judges cc1-2 summarises the situation, and the beginning of the chastening. Essentially, God mandated that the entire peoples of the Promised Land, who had prospered from placating idols, were to be wiped out from the face of the earth. This mandate was required lest Israel would be tempted to follow their example. Harsh penalties were given for failure in this area. A warning was given that only the virgin girls would be spared for marriage. Perhaps the reasoning for this was that because sexuality was such a significant part of their worship, and logic would say that, as a race of people, they would be experts in giving maximum pleasure, and therefore could cause the Israelites to direct their gratitude to the gods that taught their spouses such skills.

When Israel ignored this directive against intermarriage, which occurred in the third generation after entry into the Promised Land, God finally made good on His threat. The summary of the Book of Judges is basically a cyclic tale of Israel's idolatry, God causing a nation to rise up against them, Israel crying out to God for mercy, God sending a Judge to liberate them, peace in the land, Israel's return to idolatry, etc... The historical tale has been the same, with an interesting twist that occurred in the middle of the 19th century. But before this, allow me a little side regarding idolatry...

[b]True Nature Of Idolatry - Self Worship[/b]
As you may know, the main two gods that were worshipped by the inhabitants of Canaan, were Ashteroth (fertility goddess, worshipped sexually in sacred groves around 'Ashteroth Poles') and Baal (ruling spirit over a territory who needed to be placated in order to receive his favour, sacrificed to on altars erected in 'High places'). The other lesser-mentioned god was Moloch (promised power and prestige to those who would 'pass their son through the fire', ie. throw him into a white hot furnace as a sacrifice). These gods have been manifest through various other names through history. Ashteroth, for example, as Diana of Ephesus, Aphrodite of the Grecians, and Venus of the Romans. Paris Reidhead, in his sermon "The Dangers of Third Generation Religion", has expounded on this, by comparing these gods with the 'lust of the eyes', 'lust of the flesh' and the 'pride of life' (1 Jn 2:15-16). It goes like this:

- [b]Ashteroth[/b] - temptation to sexually sin (lust of the flesh)
- [b]Baal[/b] - temptation to be "morally inventive" in order to achieve one's goals (lust of the eyes)
- [b]Moloch[/b] - temptation to claim "ascendancy over one's fellow's" (pride of life)

Note that John cites these three things by referring to them as "all that is in the world". It's like this, God has set the standard of the Ten Commandments, and Satan agrees with the standard but offer's three exceptions to the rule. My two children (currently oldest is 6) refer to these as the Devil's three tricks, to get us to break God's Commandments. This principle that John referred to as "all that is in the world" operates like an "exception to the rule". It is as if they to us, "The Commandments are good, but this is more important." Everything in the world screams at us that this is the case, even today. It was these three things that tempted Eve with the "forbidden fruit":

"...when the woman saw that the tree [i]was[/i] [b]good for food[/b] (lust of flesh), and that it [i]was[/i] [b]pleasant to the eyes[/b] (lust of the eyes), and a tree [b]to be desired to make one wise[/b] (pride of life), she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat..."
[b](Gen 3:6)[/b]

... in spite of the fact that God commanded them not to eat of "that tree".

Paul made mention of the fact that an idol has no power in itself, but that its power is in our devotion to it (1 Cor 8). The real sin of the idolater is that, in defining his own god, he has become creator of his own god, and therefore a god in himself. So the act of worshipping an idol is ultimately 'self-adulation' because in worshiping a god of your own imagination, you in fact worship yourself.

[b]Appeasing The Conscience [/b]
Considering that "temptation is the proposition presented to the intellect to fulfil a God given good appetite in a forbidden way" (Reidhead), then the purpose of the idol is to appease the conscience, giving license so that we can act upon the temptation without disturbing it. For example, in order to maintain your farm, you'll need family members to help with the work. [b]Ashteroth[/b] will resist your fertility unless you appease her by participate in sexual acts with her priests/priestesses. Therefore not only is promiscuity not actually wrong, but it is a necessary 'evil' in order to survive. The farm needs rain, but rain is withheld by [b]Baal[/b] until a sacrifice is offered to him, because he controls the rain (call it a 'rain tax'). You see, because man could not shake the fact that he would, one day have to answer to God, he invented 'gods' who would require of us 'sinful behaviour'. This way, he can blame the idol for making him do it (ie, the "devil made me do it"). This is why John and James both told us that "friendship with the world is enmity with God".
One can note, at this point, the stark difference between the Kingdom of God, and the world. The world demands activity in order for it to yield what is required (Gen 3:17-20), where God is one who sends "rain on the just and the unjust" (Mat 5:45). In other words, the world withholds from all but those that comply with its terms, while God freely gives regardless (1 Cor 2:12).

[b]The Second Advent Awakening[/b]
This went along fine up until the nineteenth century. A man named William Miller, a farmer in the US, came to faith in Christ after studying the Bible. He became particularly interested in eschatology and, by applying the 'year/day theory' to Daniel's prophecy, calculated the timing of Christ's return to be October 22, 1844. History will remember the 23rd of October as the 'Great Day of Disappointment', because Jesus obviously didn't return.

Out of what was refereed to as the "Second Advent Awakening" came various sects that tried to vindicate Miller for his mistakes, and amongst these are the Seventh Day Adventists, and the Watchtower Society (ie, Jehovah's Witnesses). Regardless of these people's attempts at redefining Miller's conclusions, before he died in 1879, Miller himself declared, "we expected the personal coming of Christ at that time; and now to contend that we were not mistaken is dishonest. We should never be ashamed frankly to confess our errors. I have no confidence in any of the theories that grew out of the movement." Even critics of the Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses concede that, "Miller was a sincere, godly Christian to the end of his life."

Why do I mention this? It is because something did happen in October of 1844 that is more consistent with the actual prophecy that Daniel gave.

"[b]13[/b] Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain [i]saint[/i] which spake, [b]How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation,[/b] to give [b]both the sanctuary[/b] and the [b]host to be trodden under foot?
14[/b] And he said unto me, Unto [b]two thousand and three hundred days;[/b] then shall the [b]sanctuary be cleansed.
15[/b] And it came to pass, when I, [i]even[/i] I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
[b]16[/b] And I heard a man's voice between [i]the banks of[/i] Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
[b]17[/b] So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for [b]at the time of the end shall be the vision.
18[/b] Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
[b]19[/b] And he said, Behold, I will make thee know [b]what shall be[/b] in the [b]last end of the indignation:[/b] for at the time appointed the end [i]shall be[/i].
[b](Dan 8:13-19) [/b]

Now, Miller concluded that the 2300 years before the "sanctuary (would) be cleansed" (applying the year/day theory), would begin when the Temple at Jerusalem was decreed to be rebuilt by Artaxerxes (Ezra 6:14). Since historians placed this event in 457BC, that would mean its completion would be 1844AD (bearing in mind that there was no such year as 0AD). Considering that the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) was the event in the Hebraic calendar where the cleansing of the temple occurred, and that Artaxerxes' decree was in Autumn, Miller concluded that the event that he was expecting would occur on that day. In 1844, the tenth day of the seventh month in the Jewish calendar, fell on October 22nd.

Cleansing Of The Sanctuary, Not Christ's Return
Miller concluded that this event would be Christ's return, because it was common for the earth to be referred to as God's sanctuary, and since the earth wouldn't be truly cleansed until Christ returned. This interpretation would be fine if the Bible had no other references to the cleansing of God's sanctuary, but there are others. Ezekiel saw a vision of six men with destroying weapons in their hands, who were sent into the midst of Israel to smite all but "the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst (of Israel)". One of the six men, also had an inkhorn, in order to mark the foreheads of these "sighers" and "criers", in order to identify them (Ezek 9). Logic would suggest that seeing as they were commanded to "begin in (God's) sanctuary" and go out from there, then prophetically speaking, the sanctuary could not be the whole earth. It must be something more specific.

Before I mention a possible alternative event that could be considered to be a catalyst to produce a "cleansing of the sanctuary", let me return your attention to the main points of this article.
- Israel chose to intermarry two generations after entering the Promised Land.
- The three main gods that were worshipped, co-relate to how the Apostle John described "all that is in the world", in his first epistle.
- Idolatry's ultimate purpose is to give justification to the conscience, so that we can act upon our temptation without our conscience being disturbed.

[b]Forsaking the Lord [/b]
In Judges, God told the Israelites that he would leave the inhabitants of Canaan so that "through them (He) may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it , or not." (Jdg 2:22) After their first captivity, they returned to eventually worship their "means of worship", over the One who was meant to be the "object of their worship" (Matt 23:23). This ultimately led to God allowing the destruction of His Temple at the hands of Rome, in 70AD.

No temple meant no place for sacrifice, so a rabbi named Yochan Ben Zakkai redefined Judaism's means of forgiveness in terms of repentance (Teshuvah), prayer (Tefillah) and good deeds (Tzadakah). I have heard a messianic Jew say that if you went outside a synagogue after they finished their Yom Kippur ceremonies, and asked them if they were forgiven and they would reply, "I don't know, but I've done all that I can do." This is what most of Judaism has consisted of up until today.

You may know that Israel had no nation of their own, until 1946, but did you realise that Israel had a tendency to view Germany as their "messianic alternative" (this will be explained later) to having their own land? This is why there was such a concentration of Jews in Germany prior to World War 2. Consider that 80% of the world's Jewish population is of Ashkenazi origin, and recognise Yiddish, which is of Germanic origin, as their "mother tongue" (Hebrew being the "father tongue") and you can see some clues to substantiate this fact (Art Katz has spoken much on this, from extensive research, so again I recommend you read his book "The Holocaust: Where Was God").

Germany offered much to be desired, considering its long reputation of being the epicentre of excellence. It had spawned Luther, Beethoven, Handel, Freud, Boehme and Einstein. Its military might was second to none, and their innovativeness was, and still is, likewise unparalleled. What better place for such a nation as Israel to dwell. There was one other significant mind that Germany had spawned.

[b]Self-Worship Unveiled [/b]
On October 15th 1844, a child was born to a Lutheran pastor and his wife, in the small village of Röcken. After the death of his father at the age of five, younger brother at six and his grandmother at twelve, his mother raised him on her own with his sister, Elizabeth who was two years younger. The young man attended a boys school and later a private school, and in 1864 went on to study theology and philology at university. After one semester, the young man stopped his theological studies and left his faith behind. Over time he wrote many works, primarily of a philosophical nature. The man's name was Friedrich Nietzsche.

Nietzsche was one of the first to establish the principles of Atheism in a way that made sense. He proposed the importance of humanity establishing its own morality, without the need for an "imaginary judge" that we need to face one day. He presented a theory that portrayed the type of relationship between God and man, as a "master/slave" relationship, and then exhorted man to [b]become their own God[/b] (Übermensch, lit. "over man" or "god man"). This in effect gave humanity the first opportunity to openly yield to temptation without the need to be plagued by their conscience, because they had now been given the right to establish their own moral code, based on their own values. Nietzsche is best know for penning the words "God is dead" in his book titled "The Gay Science".

[b]Idolatry of Modern Israel[/b]
The veil of idolatry had finally been lifted, and men were now free to be their own God, unashamedly. In other words, the new "idol" was to become "raw selfish humanism". If you've heard Paris Redhead’s "Ten Shekels and a Shirt", you'd be keenly aware of humanism's affect on Christianity, but Judaism was also deeply affected. Room was made for the concept of "Meshiach" to be about a new social order, because sacrifices had been replaced with good works, a legalistic arrogance began to fester once again. "Salvation by works" silently carries with it the notion man is "good enough in himself", thereby not requiring God's intervention in order to "make him good". Monotheism and the Scriptures began to be thought of as a Jewish invention (after all their people gave the world Moses, David, and the prophets), and therefore, in their minds, these things confirmed their "greatness".

The Jewish culture was kept, while the God that was such an integral part of their culture, was all but ignored. The Jews had, for the most part "outgrown God". Theism was replaced by Deism, and ultimately God was tossed aside. A Jewish friend of mine, who has recently come to faith in Christ, stated that he believed that "while many (Jews) would say that they believe in God, well over 50% would live and believe essentially the same things as an atheist... Well over 50%."

You see, in the time of the Judges, it wasn't that the Israelites stopped worshipping Yahweh, so much as that they supplemented their worship with sacrifices to gods that would 'get the job done', when God wasn't answering their prayers quick enough. They honoured Yahweh with their lips, but feared and worshipped the gods of the land.

One can see this in the closing stories in the Book of Judges, where we see, for example, Micah building his own temple, filling it with idols, and then claiming that "the Lord (Yahweh) will do him right", because he acquired a Levite to serve him in his idolatry (Jdg 17). God referred to this, in His Word, as "forsaking the Lord". So, here we are. Israel had chosen to go "a whoring after" their own "messianic alternative", which allows them the luxury of a self perception of greatness, in place of their Meshiach who came in brokeness, shame and humility, calling them follow in his footsteps. They chose a self vindictive stance against their oppressors, rather than recognising them as God's promised vehicle of chastening for forsaking the Lord, to pursue their "gods".

[b]The Sanctification of the Prophet of Atheism and Anti-Semitism[/b]
Now, considering that seven days is allotted time that is waited before a Jewish male is circumcised, and that Nietzsche was born seven days before October 22nd 1844, could it be possible that the birth of this man, who lifted the veil on idol worship, like no other, could have been the event that Daniel was pointing us to? Note that Miller would have had no reason to know about this fulfillment, because Nietzsche was relatively unknown until the twentieth century.

To add another twist to Nietzsche's role in the "cleansing of the sanctuary", his sister, Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche married a known anti-Semite. Nietzsche wrote his sister a letter, which strongly objected to her choice of suitor, on the grounds of the Förster's anti-Semitism. This wouldn't mean much, except that on January 3rd 1889, Nietzsche suffered a severe mental collapse, which led to Elisabeth becoming executor of Nietzsche's literary estate. After Nietzsche's death in August 25 1900, Elizabeth published the book entitled "The Will to Power", by compiling Nietzsche's unpublished notebooks into one anthology.

Although the name of the book wasn't mentioned, in the sermon "Ten Shekels and a Shirt", Paris Reidhead referred to "The Will to Power" as the work which influenced Hitler to believe that the "chief end of all being" is to "gain ascendancy over one's fellows". Historians have used this book as the cornerstone of charging Nietzsche with accusations of fascism and anti-Semitism. In light of the above mentioned letter that he had sent to his sister, other historians believe that Elisabeth had selectively included material and gave the excerpts from Frederich's notebook an order different to that of his own. This led to the current opinion that her manuscript as a revisionist corruption bringing her brother's text in line with her own anti-Semitic beliefs, which he had vehemently opposed.

It would seem that, like most true atheists that I have had dealings with, of late, Nietzsche was of exceptional moral character in regard to pragmatism. His life apparently had, as a practical outworking, a consideration of others that would shame all but the most pious Christian, in spite of penning the slogan "God is dead" and ranking one's own life as its sole consideration when evaluating how one should act. Racism would have been intolerable because it is not self serving, outside of a biased superstition based on fear and/or self delusion. Therefore, Hitler's notions of the Jews being the enemy of mankind would have been considered to be based on paranoid delusions, as there would have been no individual element to them.

[b]Jewish Self-Sufficiency [/b]
On the heels of the Nazi holocaust, Israel adopted the slogan of "Never again!!" and resolved to resist aggression against itself at all costs. The "Open Letter To The World" video that you showed me perfectly illustrates this. Now, before you condone or excuse away this attitude as justified, consider that Yahweh has been portrayed as a "tribal war god", in books like "The DaVinci Code", who issued orders to commit genocide and the hands of his people, Israel. In a world that is becoming increasingly atheistic, and therefore believes that gods are figments of the imagination, used by superstitious people to justify cruel behaviour, one would logically hold the nation of Israel accountable for the ruthless barbarity depicted in the Book of Joshua, for example. The issue at hand here is not one of excusing wrong, due to exceptional circumstances, but acknowledging the prophetic "cause and effect" of God's decrees and interpreting history in light of this, rather than based on mere human sympathy.

Compare Israel's arrogant response to their unjust persecution, to the description of the returning remnant, having endured seeing two out of every three of their people perish (the tragedy of the Nazi holocaust only saw one third die):

[b]23[/b] Behold, [b]the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury[/b], a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
[b]24[/b] The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.
[b]31:1[/b] At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.
[b]2[/b] Thus saith the LORD, [b]The people [i]which were[/i] left of the sword found grace in the wilderness;[/b] [i]even[/i] Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.
[b]3[/b] The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, [i]saying[/i], Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
[b]4[/b] Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.
[b]5[/b] Thou shalt yet plant vines upon the mountains of Samaria: the planters shall plant, and shall eat [i]them[/i] as common things.
[b]6[/b] For there shall be a day, [i]that [/i]the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.
[b]6[/b] For there shall be a day, [i]that[/i] the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.
[b]7[/b] For thus saith the LORD ; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: [b]publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.[/b]
[b]8[/b] Behold, [b]I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth,[/b] [i]and[/i] with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
[b]9 [u]They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them[/u][/b]: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
[b](Jer 30:23-31:9) [/b]

The remnant shall return with "weeping" and be led by "supplications", while the holocaust survivors returned with "defiance", led by "resolve". The remnant shall cause the world to beat their swords into plowshares and live in peace, while the survivors have fortified themselves and turned their back on the world with such indignation that even the peaceful are increasingly beating their "plowshares into swords".

Modern day Zionist Israel is creating a rod for its own back. It has allowed itself to return to a land, thereby surrounding itself with avowed mortal enemies. All prophetic indications seem to suggest that the prophesied "Time of Jacob's Trouble" will commence in Jerusalem. If this is the case, then herding all the Jews into their land, is equivalent to the Nazis sending the Jews to the concentration camps. It is only a matter of time before the United Nations will recognise Palestine to be its own nation, and with such autonomy, the right to legally build its own army. This in turn will enable the Islamic League of Nations to import arms and support, in its resistance against Palestine's current "tyrant" [sic].

[b]Mindsets Can Change Quickly [/b]
I say this not to endorse a Jihad against Israel, but to map out a plausible scenario. Consider world opinion as people's oil dependence, for example, leads them to conclude that Israel is the cause of all their woes. After all, if they weren't there, the Muslim world wouldn't have an enemy. Consider also how commentators and experts in warfare refer to terrorism as the only weapon available to the oppressed. If only Israel would "give Palestine its land back", then there would be no reason for them to set off suicide bombs, and therefore no need for it to spill out into the western world.

With all the great push of Islam trying present itself as a "religion of peace, with some rogue fanatical elements", this kind of philosophy could be prevalent within a decade. After all, Hitler came to power in January 1933 and World War 2 finished when he committed suicide April 30 1945. Within his twelve year reign, he had convinced German Christendom to reject the Old Testament and with it all Jewish references in Christianity, and to introduce "Hitler Youth" programs into their churches. He also convinced the nation that the Germanic people were the master race and that their genetic integrity had to be preserved, to the extreme of sterilising and euthanasing the disabled.

Change can come that quickly. I have spoken to some elderly Germans who, although they didn't agree with Hitler's "Final Solution", they figured that there must have be a point to the claim that the Jews were the source of all Germany's woes. On hindsight, however they could see how wrong they were.

[b]Light In The Darkness [/b]
During this time there were some that resisted the Nazi's influence on the German church. These were known as the Confessional Church. Names like Deitrich Bonhoeffer and Karl Barth were amongst those who were pivotal in this modern reformation. The following are exerts out of the first article of their united theological declaration (for the full document, Google "Theological Declaration of Barmen"):

"The Confessional Synod of the German Evangelical Church met in Barmen, ... from all the German Confessional Churches met with one accord .... In fidelity to their Confession of Faith, members ... sought a common message for the need and temptation of the Church in our day... (T)hey are convinced that they have been given a common word to utter. It was not their intention to found a new Church or to form a union..., rather, to withstand in faith and unanimity the destruction of the Confession of Faith, and thus of the Evangelical Church in Germany. In opposition to attempts to establish the unity of the German Evangelical Church by means of false doctrine, by the use of force and insincere practices, the Confessional Synod insists that the unity of the Evangelical Churches in Germany can come only from the Word of God in faith through the Holy Spirit. Thus alone is the Church renewed...

We reject the false doctrine, as though the Church were permitted to abandon the form of its message and order to its own pleasure or to changes in prevailing ideological and political convictions...

We reject the false doctrine, as though the State, over and beyond its special commission, should and could become the single and totalitarian order of human life, thus fulfilling the Church's vocation as well...

We reject the false doctrine, as though the Church... should and could appropriate the characteristics,... becoming an organ of the State."

History has proven the validity of their objections. Bonhoeffer for one was highly vocal with his protests, from his parish in London. During the peak of the Nazi regime, he returned, claiming that he would have no right to be a part in the rebuilding of post-Nazi Germany, if he didn't share in their suffering alongside them. He was executed three weeks before Hitler's suicide, and the prison camp that he was in was liberated just days after his death.

This Confessional Church was pivotal amongst those who aided the Jewish people, during the Holocaust. They understood clearly that when Jesus spoke of the "least of his brethren" that first and foremost, his brethren were the descendants of Israel. Many who aided the Jews ended up in concentration camps alongside those that they tried to protect. There are those amongst eschatological commentators who cite this historical fact when claiming that the "Time of Jacob's Trouble" of the Old Testament and the "Great Tribulation" of the New Testament are interlinked, describing Jewish and Christian perspectives of the same ultimate event. Art Katz has often described dreams that some have had where men with balaclavas drag people out of their houses because they are amongst those who love the Jewish people. Consider a scenario where Israelites will suffer extreme persecution, based purely on their ethnicity. How much more will the suffering who associate themselves with such a people, by choice?

[b]True Love[/b]
Now, also consider this scenario in light of my earlier comments regarding the arrogance of Israel. Consider also how God's love is commended to us in the way that Christ died for us, not only while, but even before we had yet begun sinning, as His enemies (Rom 5:8-10;Mat 5:43-45). As the old saying goes, "You can choose your friends but you can't choose your relatives." We are adopted into God's family. In a sense, God chose us, but at the same time, our response is to choose God. Paul compared Israel to a cultivated olive tree, and warned that we Gentles, were grafted in from a wild olive tree, and therefore it would be easier for us to be removed so that cultivated branches could be grafted back in, than the other way around (Rom 11:13-25).

Similar comparisons are made to regarding our betrothal to God, replacing Israel who had given herself to harlotry. The fact is, to give ourselves to such a husband, would require that we love all that He loves, as He loves them. To truly love someone, one must be willing to accept them warts and all, otherwise we set ourselves up to be disillusioned. Having observed many marriages, mine own included, I have noticed that only after the "honeymoon period" is over, does the marriage truly begin. Often jokes are made about how everything changes after marriage. Scott Peck, in his book "The Road Less Traveled", wrote, "The myth of romantic love is a dreadful lie. Perhaps it is a necessary lie that it ensures the survival of the species by its encouragement and seeming validation of the falling-in-love experience that traps us into marriage." Basically it goes like this:

- Boy meets girl.
- Boy thinks girl is pretty.
- Boy puts his "best act on" to impress her.
- Boy marries girl.
- Boy now relaxes and shows his true colours.

If they have reached this point, and you can be assured that the girl has been doing the same thing, there is a disillusionment that occurs, at which point "true" love can begin. Bonhoeffer wrote of this "crisis of disillusionment" in his epic work on Christian community, "Life Together". Until this point is reached, it cannot be known whether or not a relationship can withstand a significant offence occurring.

In recent years, the church has become enamored with the Jewish people, particularly the prophetic significance of the establishment of the Zionist state of Israel. Some eschatological commentators claim that Christ will return within a generation of Israel's return to their promised land. Great efforts have been made to assist Israelites in such a relocation. Amongst Messianic commentators are some who claim that the common opinion amongst Jews is that Christian interest in their people is purely utilitarian, because Israel's return will hasten the second coming of "their Jesus".

Sadly I feel that there is some truth to this claim. Until the church can see beyond the romantic image of Israel as God's "holy people" a realise that there are some ugly spots that need to be acknowledged and embraced, without minimising this "ugliness". Art Katz has referred to a latent antisemitism that exists within every Gentile. Perhaps this can be traced back to Noah's prophetic decree toward his three sons:

[b]25[/b] And he said, Cursed [i]be[/i] Canaan [b](son of Ham);[/b] a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
[b]26[/b] And he said, [b]Blessed be the LORD God of Shem[/b]; and Canaan shall be his servant.
[b]27 God shall enlarge Japheth[/b], and he shall [b]dwell in the tents of Shem[/b]; and [b]Canaan shall be his servant[/b].
[b](Gen 9:25-27) [/b]

Here we have three sons, who would grow into races. In fact, every human being or the planet can trace their lineage back to one or more of these brethren. One would be cursed, one would be blessed, and one would be great. Japheth (father of the Western nations) would be enlarged, and yet would require Shem (father of the Eastern nations) to provide his dwelling. Ham's descendants (the African peoples) had a curse placed on them that resulted in their servitude of their brothers, and yet because of Shem's blessing, this service would be received by God as if it was to Him. Canaan's curse was to be the expression of blessing to Shem and his "house guest". A similar curse could be seen upon the Levites, where they would receive no inheritance in the land itself, but in place of this, the Lord Himself would be their inheritance (Gen 49:5-7). Often what would initially appear to be a curse in the eyes of man, is in reality the ultimate blessing in the eyes of God.

[b]Tents of Shem[/b]
Looking at recent political scenarios, and we have a world that is being dominated by Western nations (Japheth), with these nations being dependant on oil and manufacturing from Eastern nations (Shem), with African nations (Ham) being relegated to the background, all but ignored as they wipe themselves out by civil war. Looking at this ideologically we have Western nations (Japheth) dominated by a Atheistic mindset which is Capitalistic in nature, having to placate to the Islamic Arabs and Communistic Chinese (Ham) in order to keep their economy and power afloat. Note that Africa (Ham) has been becoming more and more Muslim and Communist as time goes on.

Both Islam and Communism are, in their purist expressions, Semite creations. The Quran being written by the Arabic Mohammed, and the Communist Manifesto by the Hebrew Karl Marx. These two ideologies could be considered to be like a great "tent" that has been spread over the world that is becoming increasingly inescapable and, despite all the military might of the Western World, they are more and more "dwelling in the tents of Shem".

Here we have the Monotheism of the Muslim, and the Atheism of the Communist, both of which are a misrepresentation of reality in relation to the truth of God. Monotheism limits God to one nonrelational entity, which is not participant with humanity and therefore cannot save us, while retaining His integrity at the same time. Atheism, on the other hand, denies not only God's very existence, but the need for God's existence, as discussed earlier. Both of these deny God's right to rule, in a practical sense. Islam gets around this by painting God out to be a controlling dictator who demands obedience or "appeasement via ritual" if He is not obeyed. Communism, on the other hand, goes down the road of deifying humanity as an entity, and requiring blind devotion to the human race, over the individual. We can see these philosophies prevailing more and more within society. God is seen as the distant "man upstairs", who is ignored while things are going well and blamed when things go wrong. As we have seen earlier, all idolatry, which is a false representation of God are based on self-deification, and therefore Atheism is, in essence, idolatry in its undiluted form.

[b]False Shaming the False[/b]
The other thing about these philosophies is that they bring shame to both Jews and Christians. Jews claim to be monotheistic and yet act atheistic, because they deny God's right to rule in their day to day lives. Muslims on the other hand are strict adherents and guardians of "true monotheism". Christians are supposed to be defined by their love for one another, but for the most part, there is nothing but sectarianism and control of congregations by ministers who justify their behaviour by citing the amount of benevolent deeds that they perform. Communists on the other hand, function as ants in a hill, refusing to consider themselves higher than another, and pledging undying and unquestioning loyalty to their superiors. Ironically, it is the Bible that exhorts "the sluggard" to "look to the ant", and exhorts the rebellious to "obey them that have the rule over (them), and submit (themselves)".

Paris Reidhead had spoken of going to the Communist headquarters in Minnesota, as a young Bible College student, to ask about "communist teaching methods in America". The man he spoke to commented on how their greatest source of inspiration was the Bible. All they had to do was ignore the references to God. The rationale was that if Jesus' disciples were able to transform their world within a generation or two, what better historical source book could there be for a budding young revolutionary?

[b]Instruments of Judgement[/b]
Could it be that God has allowed these two ideologies to arise in order to become instruments of judgement to both Israel and the church, due to their rejection of God's right to rule? Images of 9/11 provoke imaginings of religious zealots who were so incensed over the decadence and immorality of western nations and prepared to do something about it. While their methods appear to work against God's, one can see that this as in keeping with historical examples of God's judgement, as given in Scripture. Take the repentance of the Assyrians after hearing Jonah's preaching in Ninevah. This led to the sparing of that cruel nation who would later invade and conquer Israel as judgement for their consistent idolatry. This could also be taken into consideration when viewing Nazi Germany in light my earlier comments regarding Nietzsche's influence on atheism and antisemitism.
[b]13[/b] Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as [b]this people draw near [i]me[/i] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me[/b], and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
[b](Is 29:13) [/b]

One eschatological commentator has made the observation that 9/11 was an attack on the economic and military centers of a purported Christian nation, that places the words "In God We Trust" on their currency, and has scantily clad rock and movie stars starting their acceptance speeches with the words "I'd like to thank God", while they daily display an ignorance and avoidance of God, at best, and a betrayal and dishonouring of Him at worst. Often their songs and movies are full of blasphemous statements and glorification of adultery, fornication, murder and deception. Is it little wonder that one who is zealous for the reputation of God, albeit misguided, would feel the need to act, when they see God being associated with such immorality? Historically, both Islam and Communism have served horrific persecution to both Jew and Christian alike. While I'll leave further mention of Communist influence for another time, due to current attention toward Islam and ignorance toward Marxism.

[b]Loving God's 'Chosen People' In Their Time of Distress[/b]
If we consider all that I have presented here, we can see a melting pot, with great potential to produce the Time of Jacob's Trouble as described in Scripture. The question that we as Christians need to ask is, "What has this to do with us?" I have touched upon the answer to this question earlier, and it is found in these verses:

[b]37[/b] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, [b]Lord, when saw we thee[/b] an hungred, and fed [i]thee[/i]? or thirsty, and gave [i]thee[/i] drink?
[b]38[/b] When saw we thee a stranger, and took [i]thee[/I] in? or naked, and clothed [i]thee[/i]?
[b]39[/b] Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[b]40[/b] And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, [b]Inasmuch as ye have done [i]it[/i] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [i]it[/i] unto me.[/b]
[b]45[/b] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, [b]Inasmuch as ye did [i]it[/i] not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46[/b] And [b]these shall go away into everlasting punishment[/b]: but the [b]righteous into life eternal.
(Mat 25:37-40,45-46)[/b]

Whilst I realise that this has been often used to encourage general benevolence, and this is a good usage, could it be that Jesus is also stating that a significant part of being righteous, is to be practically loving toward his "brethren", the Jews? And not just loving them while in good times, but through the distress of hunger, thirst, isolation, nakedness, poverty, illness, and imprisonment. In other words, this love will be required at the times when they will be hardest to love, when the most extreme of the above mentioned negative characteristics will be revealed.

[b]Sharing In Israel's Suffering[/b]
The consequences of such a choice to love these persecuted ones could be catastrophic. Leonard Ravenhill was quoted to say, "The prophet is a tragic figure. He suffers for the people, with the people and by the people." Imagine the frustration that Christians will face, as they are trying to protect these Jews, who have rejected their Messiah and are distrustful of anything to do with Jesus (After all, Germany was a "Christian nation", and the Muslims have repackaged Jesus as a prophet who came as a sign against them). The love that will be required will attract contempt from the Jewish people, misunderstanding from other professing believers, and victimisation from Israel's persecutors.

Earlier I had mentioned stories told of people who had nightmares of being dragged out of their homes for associating themselves with the Jewish people. This may sound farfetched, but don’t forget that it only took Germany's Nazi party twelve years for it to rise and fall. As I mentioned earlier, in referring to the German Confessional Church, this Time of Jacob’s Trouble could be the catalyst for the great tribulation that is mentioned in the Book of Revelation.

Now, realise that I am not attempting to be pontifical in my statements here, and I am open to the possibility that I may be wrong about all this, but either way, we need to be mindful of such things. The data that I have presented is factual, and can be easily verified on Wikipedia or like, whether my interpretation of the facts are correct or not. Having said all that I am persuaded that this is an accurate assessment, and could come to pass very soon. If Australia, for one is not either under Sharia Law, or in the midst of a Communist style revolution within the next five years, I will be surprised.

[b]The Liberating Effect of Truth[/b]
My reason for writing this to you is to alert you to the need to love Israel as they are in actuality, recognising their failures as well as their strengths. Love that is based on anything but truth is a sham, and therefore mere delusion, for it is not "true love". We were commanded by Christ to love our enemies, citing as an example how God "maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust" (Mat 5:44-45). Note that God doesn't call his enemies "friends", but loves them in spite of their enmity. Vance Havner wisely said, "If we loved the world the way that God loved the world, then we would need to worry about loving the world the way that we shouldn't." (referring to Jn 3:16 and 1 Jn 2:15).

I have seen many pass into disillusionment over the years, and have noted that this period tends to "make or break" believers. When I consider these ones, I can easily imagine a Christendom that instantaneously turns against Israel, almost universally. The only thing that can spare us in that situation is truth. For Christ himself said, "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." I believe that there are many now who will state that they are of the "seed" of Wesley, Whitfield, Edwards, Finney, Spurgeon, Tozer, Ravenhill, Comfort, etc.., in the face of such words. Perhaps Christ would respond to many of these as to those who pleaded their ancestry in Abraham, "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (Jn 8:31-36).

When we look at events that are going on in the world, few would doubt that there is definitely "something afoot", prophetically speaking. There are many who would put their head in the proverbial sand, rather than, turn aside like Moses, to see when they encounter such a "burning bush". There are even more is who would entertain fanciful tales of escape from such a drama, rather than ready themselves for endurance. This I won't elaborate on now, but I am sure you know what I am referring to.

[b]Conclusion [/b]
So the point of all this is to say that we are to love Israel as God's chosen people, and our love for them must be based on who they are in reality, rather than on romantic notion of who we think they should be. There are times of global distress coming, of which Israel and he Church will be principle victims. Their role as "victims" is not so much one of being innocent, but rather this is the result of their national involvement in idolatry.

In spite of all this, it must be remembered that God has foretold all of this in His Word. He is aware of the plight of His people, and has promised that those who repent and endure until the end, will not only survive but will be rewarded for their endurance. God's chastening is a sign of His love (Heb 12:5-7). Often it is only though God's chastening that we will come to the point of "godly sorrow", which is what "works repentance" in us (2 Co 7:10).

May our heart for Israel and comprehension of salvation be as Paul described in Rom 10:

[b]1[/b] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
[b]2[/b] For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
[b]3[/b] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[b]4[/b] For Christ [i]is[/i] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[b](Rom 10:1-4)[/b]

In His grip,

Aaron Ireland

Aaron Ireland

 2007/4/28 10:19Profile

Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


Brother Aaron,

Thank you for words that needed to be said.
May the Lord bless and give you strength in the journey that is ahead.

Rev. 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

In His Love


 2007/4/28 10:55Profile


Thats quite the read, but very interesting.

I have a couple of questions though. Christ is the head, the Church is the body, and the Children of Israel are the chosen people of God, what is it in relation to the body of Christ?

If it is apart of the body of Christ, than wouldn't the rest of the Church be included as chosen?

Is the Church not a chosen people?

Or is Israel the only chosen people?

 2007/4/28 11:58

Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia



Compliments wrote:
Is the Church not a chosen people?

Or is Israel the only chosen people?

Why does it have to be one or the other? Have you ever considered the possibility that, while the Body of Christ, on the whole is chosen of God, that within the body there are seperate purposes that God would have for Jew and Gentile? Also, have you considered the existance of "as yet unfulfilled" purposes that God would have for "genetic Israel"?

Aaron Ireland

 2007/4/28 19:59Profile


Thank you for sharing this. It is a lot of information and I am still processing it. There are indeed troubling days ahead, both for Israel and the Church, but how glorious it will be when the blindness is lifted and Israel repents!
Your links between Islam and Communism are very interesting. I'm going to keep thinking about this...

Romans 10:1-3

 2007/4/28 22:28

 Re: Israel


Compliments wrote:
Thats quite the read, but very interesting.

I have a couple of questions though. Christ is the head, the Church is the body, and the Children of Israel are the chosen people of God, what is it in relation to the body of Christ?

If it is apart of the body of Christ, than wouldn't the rest of the Church be included as chosen?

Is the Church not a chosen people?

Or is Israel the only chosen people?

Hi again!

There are two things here, two perspectives, two peoples, two orders of creation in a sense - each of which have their place in God's overall plan.

One is the eternal and spiritual, the other is the temporal and physical.

One is the "Israel of God", the true Church, Jew and Gentile, together in Christ, past, present and future, alive on earth and gone to Glory.

The other is the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The fulfillment of God's Word re His earthly people has nothing to do with their faithfulness, or righteouseness, or even if they accept Jesus or not. Rather, [i][b]it has to do with the Word, promises and faithfulness of God Himself[/b][/i]. Israel as a nation (although there was always a faithful remnant) broke the Covenant and rejected their Messiah, yet God never breaks His Word.

Not because of their righteousness (any more than we are saved because of ours) but [i][b]for the sake of His great Name[/b][/i], the Lord hasn't yet finished with His earthly people.

In the words of Romans, "God has not cast away his people whom he foreknew". They are "beloved for the fathers' sakes" - including even those who still reject and hate Jesus - even those who will face damnation in the end because of their rebellion.

As Jeremiah 30:10 f says: [i]10 But you, my servant Jacob, fear not, says the LORD,
be not dismayed, O Israel!
Behold, I will deliver you from the far-off land,
your descendants, from their land of exile;
Jacob shall again find rest,
shall be tranquil and undisturbed,
11 for I am with you, says the LORD, to deliver you.
[b]I will make an end of all the nations
among which I have scattered you;
but of you I will not make an end.[/b]
I will chastise you as you deserve,
I will not let you go unpunished."[/i]

A key promise that (as far as I know) has never yet been fulfilled is the geographical extent of the Promised Land. For example, the eastern boundary was to be the Euphrates, in Iraq! Solomon's influence reached pretty far but not all of it was actually part of his kingdom.

On the face of it, it might seem that God [i]had[/i] finished with Israel in AD 70, when Jerusalem and the Temple were again destroyed, and the Jews scattered, apparently forever.

But then came 1948... that HAD to be God, surely? Miraculously the infant State of Israel survived, in spite of attempts from the beginning to destroy her. Other nations and peoples may have been landless nomads, scattered among other nations, yet keeping their identity (Romany Gypsies?). But none have returned to their original land after nearly 2,000 years!

Why are the Jews still so persecuted, and hated by so many other peoples and nations? The nations and regimes that want most to utterly destroy Israel and the Jews have always been those whose leaders are the most completely demonised (Hitler etc ); or dupes and slaves of a demonic religion (Islam). That has to be significant.

Surely Satan knows that they are still (willing or not) a witness among the nations of the very existence and power of God, as well as a reminder that his downfall came through the Seed of Abraham!"

In Him


 2007/4/29 16:45

Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406



Very good sister very good indeed, is it not wonderful how our Lord keeps His word, every jot and tittle. Praise His Holy Name! :-)

In His Love


 2007/4/29 18:18Profile


The fulfillment of God's Word re His earthly people has nothing to do with their faithfulness, or righteouseness, or even if they accept Jesus or not. Rather, it has to do with the Word, promises and faithfulness of God Himself. Israel as a nation (although there was always a faithful remnant) broke the Covenant and rejected their Messiah, yet God never breaks His Word.

Jeannette, I would heartily agree with you, however the covenant was changed, and a new one was drawn up.
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Is the remnant that is supposed to be saved take place in the last days?

 2007/4/29 19:56

Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1572
Scotland, UK

 Re: Cleansing of the Sanctuary

Rom 11:13 But I speak to you that are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I glorify my ministry;
Rom 11:14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy them that are my flesh, and may save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them is the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be , but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 And if the firstfruit is holy, so is the lump: and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive, wast grafted in among them, and didst become partaker with them of the root of the fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 glory not over the branches: but if thou gloriest, it is not thou that bearest the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God’s goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they continue not in their unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more shall these, which are the natural branches , be grafted into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in;
Rom 11:26 and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 And this is my covenant unto them, When I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience,
Rom 11:31 even so have these also now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they also may now obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and unto him, are all things. To him be the glory for ever. Amen.

Colin Murray

 2007/4/30 11:26Profile

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