| Poster | Thread | crsschk
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Re: Name callings | | Quote:
I think for this reason, the Lord graces us with one another to help compliment, complete, reprove and sharpen our understanding of the His Word. We engage one another in the Scriptures, some teaching and others learning, but all with a heart of worship and attentiveness to the Holy Spirit. Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord. I think the sphere of Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ includes doctrinal humility.
So in the end we should all desire to feel the light of God's Word adding understanding to our own hearts directly
[i]Adding[/i] Rather like that MC. Like a lot of these, too many to quote from.
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Sometimes I assume everyone here knows me well enough to understand my point without me having to explain everything in detail... thats obviously not always true. Usually I think I'm a good communicator, other times... not so much.
Without a doubt Krispy, just as well you would recognize the extrapolations and perspectives drawn off on to other considerations from that starting point.
There may yet be something to a bit of purposeful ignorance. That is to say on certain 'theological' constructs. Have mentioned it before but there is a great deal that is not all that interesting to ... 'have to understand' of particular ... "stances", be they of Calvinism and the points, Finney's line of reasoning, even the wonderful Godly reasoning of Wesley. If I am following you correctly it does become a snare and a stunting of growth if, by means of [i]holding[/i] tightly to these saints and their [i]particulars[/i], aping their thoughts, agreeing wholesale to their ... [i]methods[/i] the end can be one of being pigeonholed and far too often, mean, unruly, obnoxious, bitter, both spiritually and in practicality.
Another redundant rant often forwarded here is the beauty of gleaning from such a wide array of seemingly competing thought. It is not to form yet another [i]abomination[/i] but to distill and be made to consider, to glean ... [i]spiritual substance[/i].
Even after some four years traversing this wonder it is quite amazing how much ... in common ultimately, spiritually, where it truly matters there is agreement underneath so many diverse and seemingly opposite ... 'schools of thought'. The ignorance I am speaking of is one that sees all these vast perspectives as being of the same substance, namely Christ.
Of course that is a great sweeping generality and doesn't speak to many a false construct nor to do away with a ... deconstruction by way of examination in light of scripture, which I think by and large is one of the thrusts attempted here in this [i]forum[/i], something quite more than a place to post random thoughts of little import ... I digress, guess I felt a need to express that.
What is truly fascinating is to watch the growth of each other, for those who have tarried here for some duration. It is often on a level that even defies proper definition ... Have seen men softened in the right places and strengthened in others, all this chiseling and sharing, shaping and challenging, being used in ways unknown to even ourselves, a word, a sentence, a quote ... those things that scar themselves into the marrow of our being, we are changed by all this Praise God.
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Mike Balog
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|  2007/4/26 9:45 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
What is truly fascinating is to watch the growth of each other, for those who have tarried here for some duration. It is often on a level that even defies proper definition ... Have seen men softened in the right places and strengthened in others, all this chiseling and sharing, shaping and challenging, being used in ways unknown to even ourselves, a word, a sentence, a quote ... those things that scar themselves into the marrow of our being, we are changed by all this Praise God.
Yea... I cringe when I think of some of the things I said, and attitudes I harbored when I first arrived here a couple years ago!
People think I'm abrasive now? lol...
Krispy |
| | 2007/4/26 10:04 | | crsschk
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Brothers in arms | | Quote:
Yea... I cringe when I think of some of the things I said, and attitudes I harbored when I first arrived here a couple years ago!
Cringe would be mild ... to go back to some things written over these preceding years ..."What in the world was I [i]thinking[/i]?" ;-)
220 is much easier for finishing ...
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Mike Balog
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| | 2007/4/26 10:17 | Profile | JaySaved
Member
Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri
| | Re: Brothers in arms | | Quote:
I have to apologize to Jay for putting the spotlight on him. In retrospect I probably could have found a better way of getting my point across. Sorry Jay... hope we're good.
I forgive you. We are definitely good brother.
Also, whyme that was a great point you made in your last post. |
| | 2007/4/26 10:37 | Profile | beenblake
Member
Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA
| | Re: Name dropping... poor way to discuss doctrine | | Quote:
My point here is... scripture, not teachers or theologians, is to be our final authority on everything.
Dear Krispy,
This will shock you, but I agree with you totally.
Though, I have an addition. Scripture should be the final authority once the Spirit reigns in us, so that when we read scripture, it is the revelation of God we are receiving, and not our own interpretation or understanding. In this way, we trust in God and do not lean on our own understanding.
The bible can be warped to fit any person's doctrine. This is quite obvious by how many doctrines of men have been established by using the bible.
We must first establish that a person needs to be completely abandoned to Christ, seeking God's Will, first. When this happens, the authority of the bible is established by God who is revealing it through His Spirit, and not by our own fleshly understanding of it.
Does that make sense? Do you agree?
In Christ,
Blake
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Blake Kidney
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| | 2007/4/26 15:07 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
This will shock you, but I agree with you totally.
:eek:
Yes... I think you've finally come around to my way of thinking! lol...
Krispy |
| | 2007/4/26 15:36 | |
| | Re: name dropping | | Its waaaay past my bedtime (gone 1am) but had to just comment briefly.
Some really good thoughts from many. It's an especial blessing to read a dialogue between two brothers (Krispy and Jay) who often disagree theologically but almost always with great grace, and in the love of Christ. May we all debate in the same good spirit as this.
Jeannette |
| | 2007/4/26 20:14 | |
| | Re: name dropping - hero-worship | | I've had a lot of difficulty in the past with thinking that if someone is obviously a great Bible teacher and a Godly person, he therefore has to be always right!
I knew [i]in theory[/i] that this wasn't true but couldn't seem to help feeling this way. If I disagreed with a teacher I would actually feel guilty, as if it was a terrible thing to question such a "master". ...Even if certain that he (or sometimes she) was wrong on a particular point.
That is basically idolatry!
It's taken a long time to be able to love and respect such a one for the sake of their labour, yet keep clear sighted that they aren't always right in every point of doctrine!
Praise God that we can go straight to Him when perplexed in understanding of Truth; knowing that no teacher can encompass ALL that even the written Word is and says.
Jeannette
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| | 2007/4/26 20:21 | | roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: | | Krispy said,
Quote:
Sometimes I assume everyone here knows me well enough to understand my point without me having to explain everything in detail... thats obviously not always true.
Krispy, Im not quite certain if these words are a response to my post. However, since they quickly followed my post, I couldnt help but suspect that I may be one of those culprits who obviously doesnt know you well enough.
You will be happy to know that my words were not geared to contradict your very insightful thoughts. (There are two sides only in wars, politics, sports, chess, debates ... and Im not one for creating sides) Im sure that you understand ME from my past posts that the authoritative role of the Spirit and the Word is paramount to me.
There is a fine line to be drawn here not between those who listen to man and those who do not, but between those who rely on man (including themselves) and those who rely the Lord. We cannot deny the fact that the Spirit does indeed equip people in the body with various aspects of his truths, and he leads them to share it. We are interdependent (as opposed to dependent).
I believe that the temptation to go it solo lurks under the skin of most of us; and also, it is easy to swing too far to one side. Therefore our various attempts to keep truth in balance aught to be as welcome as sunshine.
Quote:
all this chiseling and sharing, shaping and challenging, being used in ways unknown to even ourselves
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2007/4/26 23:29 | Profile | philologos
Member
Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: The Gashmu Syndrome | | This is an aspect of what I call the 'Gashmu Syndrome', as in...Wherein was written, It is reported among the heathen, [u]and Gashmu saith it[/u], that thou and the Jews think to rebel: for which cause thou buildest the wall, that thou mayest be their king, according to these words. (Neh 6:6 KJVS)Of course if Gashmu, whoever he was, says it it must be true! :-)
For 'Gashmu' substitute 'Calvin, Wesley, Finney, Tozer, Ravenhill, Piper'... as required, to get my drift.
We tend to use these 'great authorities' to short-circuit the argument. Someone is charging along and can be brought to an abrupt halt by quoting some great Christian leader. Sometimes, of course, we need to be brought to an abrupt halt and the counsel of a saint of proven godliness and wisdom can serve a useful purpose as long as we don't use it as a blunt weapon to blugeon our 'opponent' into silence.
I think we all suffer from some degree of the "Gashmu Syndrome" although it is not wrong to respect the judgements of godly men who may be much wiser than we are. It is an error of arrogance to think that we shall settle what wiser and better men than ourselves have struggled with for centuries. Age, of course, does not not guarantee accuracy; it may be just 'error grown old'. However a little humility would not out of place.
There is a quotation from an English writer which I love. In addressing a company of young bible college students G H Lang once said "Remember my brethren than none of us is infallible, not even the youngest of us".
There's another scripture that always brings a wry smile to my lips...For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them [u]an end of all strife[/u]. (Heb 6:16 KJVS)...if only.... :-)
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2007/4/27 3:38 | Profile |
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