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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Adam, Was he created "independent man"?

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 Re:

Quote:

beenblake wrote:
Dear Ormly,

I am sorry if you feel as though I am questioning your salvation. That is not my intention or my place.



Your responses to me say otherwise.... I teach.

Quote:
I am, however, questioning your motives. What is your purpose in asking these questions? It is obvious you are not seeking answers. Are you seeking affirmation?



Let me ask you what do believe the gospel to be about?

In love,
Blake

 2007/4/25 14:12
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2763
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Then I invite you to reveal any scripture that remotely states man could not turn to God without the need of some special grace given him to persuade him or otherwise cause him to have faith or anything else necessary in order that he might.



I have listed some Scripture in the other thread on Total Depravity but your response was only to say that it didn't apply.

So perhaps in the defense of the idea that there is a need for special revelation I could call you to the witness stand. How did you come to Christ? Was it by God supernaturally unstopping your ears and opening your blind eyes to know your true condition before Him and to know His complete provision for that condition through the Lord Jesus Christ? Didn't you hear the gospel preached and didn't you say something like, "I see it now, this truly is good news!" and your heart melted with love for the Person of Jesus Christ who had been so wonderfully revealed to you only by the power and grace of our merciful God?

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2007/4/25 14:53Profile









 Re:

Quote:

InTheLight wrote:
Quote:
Then I invite you to reveal any scripture that remotely states man could not turn to God without the need of some special grace given him to persuade him or otherwise cause him to have faith or anything else necessary in order that he might.



I have listed some Scripture in the other thread on Total Depravity but your response was only to say that it didn't apply.



And it doesn't. It makes no connection.

Quote:
So perhaps in the defense of the idea that there is a need for special revelation I could call you to the witness stand. How did you come to Christ? Was it by God supernaturally unstopping your ears and opening your blind eyes to know your true condition before Him and to know His complete provision for that condition through the Lord Jesus Christ? Didn't you hear the gospel preached and didn't you say something like, "I see it now, this truly is good news!" and your heart melted with love for the Person of Jesus Christ who had been so wonderfully revealed to you only by the power and grace of our merciful God?



Nope. I had a God loving Mother tha took me and sent me to Church in my earliest of years. Church at that time was down the street. It was never a problem for me when the time for me to act independent of her.

Isn't that the way it should be when things are done properly and in order? Doesn't that put a kink in your thinking? And you know what, my relationship with my children and my childrens children has produced the same results. Go figure, huh?

So if you would like to re-visit your N/A scriptures to show me where I am wrong I would love to read what you to say as to how they apply as an answer to my question. Think you can do that?

 2007/4/25 16:33
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2763
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Nope. I had a God loving Mother tha took me and sent me to Church in my earliest of years. Church at that time was down the street. It was never a problem for me when the time for me to act independent of her.



Dear Ken, I want to be clear on this, does this mean that there was never a crisis moment in your life where you first repented and trusted in Jesus Christ for life? Was there never a time were you died to self and called out to God and had a living encounter with Jesus Christ? Have you always been born-again?

You see, I believe this is a place of death before it's a place of life. Jesus came that we might have life, in my experience a person won't call out for some of that life unless he first sees himself as a dead man.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2007/4/25 20:14Profile









 Re:

Quote:

InTheLight wrote:
Quote:
Nope. I had a God loving Mother tha took me and sent me to Church in my earliest of years. Church at that time was down the street. It was never a problem for me when the time for me to act independent of her.



Dear Ken, I want to be clear on this, does this mean that there was never a crisis moment in your life where you first repented and trusted in Jesus Christ for life? Was there never a time were you died to self and called out to God and had a living encounter with Jesus Christ? Have you always been born-again?

You see, I believe this is a place of death before it's a place of life. Jesus came that we might have life, in my experience a person won't call out for some of that life unless he first sees himself as a dead man.

In Christ,

Ron



Please don't try to twist my words, Ron. I know this your way when you run out of answers.I don't appreciate it. I am still waiting for a sensible response to my inquiry on the other thread, remember?


Please stick to the thread topic and leave aside your attempts to sidetrack this by making it personal and/or moving it to another subject not under discussion, Ok?

To refresh your mind abit: Was Adam created independent man?

 2007/4/26 6:06









 Re:

Hi Orm, please forgive my ignorance, but what do you actually mean when you say 'independent man'?

 2007/4/26 16:02
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

"Was Adam created an independent man? Absolutely

Just like Satan was created and independent being and failed to grasp that God is a loving being and wants Satan and man to love Him independently, but cannot.

We need the nature of God to do that. The only way we can get it is to believe on the Name of the Son of God and being born again of Incorruptable Seed of the Father by the Christ that is birthed in you. Now we have a new Father, not Satan but The Father of Jesus Christ and the giver of the Holy Spirit that we might understand this mystery.

Being Born Again of Incorruptable Seed, the mystery:

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1Cr 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Col 4:3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

The result of this mystery is to present all men perfect in Christ before the God of all, and learning to love Him as He loves us and Gave His Only Begotten Son, the Cross, the Death, the Burial, the Resurrection, the Assention, The Return in the believers, that He is the Son of God and Now lives His life in us, as new creatures in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior.

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/4/26 17:54Profile









 Re:

Quote:

richardf wrote:
Hi Orm, please forgive my ignorance, but what do you actually mean when you say 'independent man'?



Hi Richard! No forgiveness needed. We all have been more than iqnorant at many times in our life. I for one just got tired of it and by God's grace He is showing me some things that have been too long "Ignored".

Thanks for you question.

What I mean by independent has to with doing things the way he wants to do them. Of course he was free to even disobey should he desire to, right?

 2007/4/26 17:54









 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
"Was Adam created an independent man?
The result of this mystery is to present all men perfect in Christ before the God of all, and learning to love Him as He loves us and Gave His Only Begotten Son, the Cross, the Death, the Burial, the Resurrection, the Assention, The Return in the believers, that He is the Son of God and Now lives His life in us, as new creatures in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior.


In Christ: Phillip



But then the thread isn't about redemption, is it?

 2007/4/26 18:16
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:



All life is redemption or hell, either believe in Jesus Christ as your Savior or we go to Hell with Satan.

Created beings with the self existence or birthed beings with the Father's Nature.

Self existence is death, existence in Christ is Life. Very Simple

Was Adam an independent self? As in Adam all die, so also all in Christ will live forever.

You are now only taking the writings of what pleases you and your agenda and posting as if you are in control. There is only One in control.

You are doing exactly what you say other are in frustration doing to you.

Seek Christ and His Life and The Spirit of God will give you freedom in Him.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/4/26 19:21Profile





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