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 Adam, Was he created "independent man"?

What can be safely assumed from scripture to be the truth that can be built upon?

If we can conclude he was then did he ever lose his independence; his ability to make choices?

 2007/4/25 6:01
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re: Adam, Was he created "independent man"?

Dear Ormly,

I am beginning to wonder what you are seeking. Are you looking for an answer to this question, or just an opportunity to promote your own ideas? I hope your questions are sincere, and I am going to assume they are.

Quote:
What can be safely assumed from scripture to be the truth that can be built upon?



All scripture is about Jesus Christ. In John 5:39-40, it says, "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." In John 17:3, Jesus clearly indicates that eternal life is knowledge of God. This means that Jesus was saying that we cannot have a knowledge of God from scripture. If anyone desires knowledge of God, they must goto Him.

This is important. This means that we cannot impart truth from scripture unless it is first revealed to us by Jesus Christ. If you or anyone else desires to know the truth concerning scripture, you must goto Jesus. Do not ask men this question. They can tell you many things, even the truth, but only Jesus can reveal truth to you. Only Christ can show you the way.

You need to ask Him this question.

Quote:
f we can conclude he was then did he ever lose his independence; his ability to make choices?



In the beginning, God created man and God had an obvious relationship with man. Man was not independent. Rather, man depended on God for all things.

When man fell, then man was separated from God and made independent from God. However, man can never be totally independent because "It is not good for man to be alone." We were not created to be independent. We must depend on other sources for existence.

For example, you must eat and work to live. If you should just sit and not eat, then you will die. Humans are constantly dependent on other things for life.

As far as "free will" is concerned, there are a great many people that misinterpret this idea. A will is simply a wish or a desire. Free will is not free choice. Free will is something internal.

Free will implies that we may desire whatever we wish. However, just because we desire something, that doesn't mean we can choose it. I may desire to win the lottery. Does that mean it will happen? No. Obviously, I don't have free choice. I might desire to flap my arms and fly, but I cannot make that happen.

Free will means that we as humans can choose who we worship with our heart. That is all. We have the freedom to love, to have faith, and to give trust. We do not have the freedom to do whatever we want. In fact, humans are easily manipulated and controlled by our beliefs. The Devil uses us all the time by telling us lies.

Humans are extremely dependent creatures. We are weak and ignorant. We are born without any knowledge and must learn everything. As we grow and learn, we develop beliefs. For instance, our parents might have told us about Santa Claus. When they did, we had to decide whether or not to believe them. Because we imparted them trust and love, we do believe them. We accept them as the authority over us. We are dependent on them. In this way, we allow them to control us.

This means a child is not in control. We do not have complete freedom. We must make decide whether or not we will believe something when we hear it. This is our freedom. We may choose what will control us or not. When the Devil comes and tells us a lie, will we believe him or not? Obviously, if we do not know God, then we will easily be deceived. If we don't know God, how will we know that the Devil is deceiving us? First, we must know God by the revelation of Christ. This means, we need Jesus to reveal God to us, then we may be safe from lies and deception.

A great many people go around thinking they are mighty and independent beings, when in truth they are being controlled by the Devil. He has them caged in a bed of lies. The bible says they are deluded. Only Christ can set us free from this.

So, to answer your question, man is not independent. We have never been.

Hope this helps to answer your question,

Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2007/4/25 8:11Profile









 Re:

"I surrender all, I surrender all, all thee my blessed Savior, I surrender all".
Surrender what?

Can you answer that?

 2007/4/25 8:32
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Can you answer that?



To surrender all means we surrender everything....

heart, mind, body, soul,
money, time, resources, possessions,
control, authority, will, understanding,
self, person, life, spirit,
family, friends, enemies,

and most importantly: sin. We surrender our sin to Jesus. This means we don't try to control our sin, we give it to Jesus to control.

To surrender all means that we lay down everything unto the feet of Jesus Christ so that He may rule over us with complete authority inward and outward.

In Christ,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2007/4/25 9:14Profile









 Re:

Then you must mean one's independence to be included in that, correct? Of course you do.

 2007/4/25 9:15
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Then you must mean one's independence to be included in that, correct? Of course you do.



Yes, if indeed we have any.

Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2007/4/25 9:24Profile









 Re:

Quote:

beenblake wrote:
Quote:
Then you must mean one's independence to be included in that, correct? Of course you do.



Yes, if indeed we have any.

Blake



Well, do we or don't we? You have already stated we don't and now you post up everything that says we do. Which is it and then lets go from there.

 2007/4/25 9:28
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Well, do we or don't we?



What do you mean by independence?

The word independence implies that we do not have any dependence. Humans are extremely dependent creatures. We must eat in order to live. We are dependent on food for life. In that sense, we are not independent.

In Christ,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2007/4/25 9:32Profile









 Re:

I'm finished, Been. I won't chase your rabbits. You figure it out from here.

Perhaps someone has something they would like to contribute. If not then I will let the thread die; chaulk it off to it being a poor question.

 2007/4/25 9:35
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Farewell then.

The answer to your question is no. Humans are not independent in any sense of the word.

The one freedom we do have is the ability to choose whom we are dependent upon. We never have and never will have access to our own buttons. But we can choose who sits at our keyboard.

In Christ,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2007/4/25 9:44Profile





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