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sscr01
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Joined: 2004/11/29
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 Re:

What you implied was foolish.

 2007/4/19 17:50Profile
RobertW
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Posts: 4636
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 Re:

Quote:
So, you are saying, that, we can worship other gods, bow down to graven images, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonour our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet and walk in His Spirit?

How foolish!



I think it unfair to assert that anyone is saying this. What is being said is that our expression of the Sabbath is fulfilled in a different way than physically resting on Saturday. The word, BTW does not mean "go to church" it means [i]to cease[/i]. So pedantically we have to follow the true meaning of the word in order to prevent confusion. We are resting from our 'works' [i]in Christ[/i]. This is how we fulfill the commandment. We do this 24/7 and not just on Saturday. And no marvel, for even many of the other commandments met with an alteration of their fulfillment also. Covetousness is now idolatry and looking with intent to lust is a breach of Thou shalt not commit adultery. So if we revert to the original 10 Words we also have to dismiss the alterations made to the other commands in the NT.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/4/19 17:52Profile
sscr01
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Joined: 2004/11/29
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 Re:

It is not for us to interpret, but, to obey:

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor and DO ALL THY WORK: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God..." Ex 20:8-11.

Again, we are to "walk as He walked." How did Jesus keep the Sabbath?

Worshipping, fellowshipping, resting, casting out demons, healing the sick. In this way, the Sabbath was "made for man."

"Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition." Matt 15:6.



 2007/4/19 18:02Profile
RobertW
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Posts: 4636
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 Re:

Quote:
Worshipping, fellowshipping, resting, casting out demons, healing the sick. In this way, the Sabbath was "made for man."



But in what way does this set apart Saturday from every other day? These are things that happen every day of the week.

If it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath and everything a Christian is supposed to do is unto the Lord (including working their job); what is a Christian to cease from if they are truly walking in the Spirit? Their whole life is to the glory of God. Personally I don't have to work on Saturday unless I work around the house. Sunday is a very busy day. SO if we mean physical rest then we are back to what Jesus said about the animal being in the ditch. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. If it is not lawful to do on the Sabbath then it is probably not lawful for any day of the week.
;-)


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/4/19 22:43Profile
sscr01
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 Re:

You can rationalize all you want. He commanded us to keep the seventh day Sabbath:

"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day: and call the Sabbath, a delight, the holy of the Lord, honurable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." Isa 58:13,14.

This is quite a promise!

I have given you the information. What you do with it is between you and the Lord.

 2007/4/20 19:54Profile
vico
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Joined: 2005/5/25
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 Re:

Brother, Christ is our Sabbath! Even as God cesed from His own works on the seventh day, let us cease from ours and do His. The Israelites were commanded to do this once a week. We having entered into the Rest find it to be our life.

Rest in Him brother

 2007/4/20 21:13Profile
sscr01
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Joined: 2004/11/29
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 Re:

The Sabbath was made for man, not, only, the Jews. Why is it, that, Christians claim to keep the Ten Commandments, until, it comes to the 4th? The, only, one, that He told us to "remember," is the one that we have forgotten. Shall we spiritualize the other nine commandments and be consistent?

It is a day, when we rest from our labors, focus on Him, and minister to others. We shut out all distractions and worship Him, alone.

Over 400 churches from different denominations have returned to the Biblical Sabbath: Baptists, Methodists, Nazarenes, SDA, Church of God, Pentecostals...and more all the time.

For more information on the Sabbath, please visit www.sabbathtruth.com

Jesus, our Creator - the "Lord of the Sabbath!" Mark 2:28.

 2007/4/20 21:31Profile
Matt122004
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 Re: The Ark of The Covenant, part 2

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! You know the truth brother!

Here, let me post up some SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT FOR THE SABBATH.........

1. After working the first six days of the week in creating this
earth, God rested on the seventh day. Genesis 2:1-3.
2.This stamped that day as God's rest day, or Sabbath day, as
Sabbath day means rest day. To illustrate: When a person is born
on a certain day, that day thus becomes his birthday. So when God
rested upon the seventh day, that day became His rest, or Sabbath,
day.
3.Therefore the seventh day must always be God's Sabbath day.
Can you change your birthday from the day on which you were
born to one on which you were not born? No. Neither can you
change God's rest day to a day on which He did not rest. Hence
the seventh day is still God's Sabbath day.
4. The Creator blessed the seventh day. Genesis 2:3.
5. He sanctified the seventh day. Exodus 20:11.
6. He made it the Sabbath day in the Garden of Eden. Genesis 2:1-3.
8. Jesus says it was made for man, that is, for the race, as the word
man is here unlimited; hence, for the Gentile as well as for the
Jew. Mark 2:27.
9. Not only is the Sabbath made for man, but Jesus said that He
was Lord of the Sabbath. Mark 2:28.
10. It is a memorial of creation. Exodus 20:11; 31:17. Every time
we rest upon the seventh day, as God did at creation, we
commemorate that grand event.
11. It was given to Adam, the head of the human race. Mark 2:27;
Genesis 2:1-3.
12. It is not a Jewish institution, for it was made 2,300 years
before ever there was a Jew.
13. The Bible never calls it the Jewish Sabbath, but always "the
Sabbath of the Lord thy God." Men should be cautious how they
stigmatize God's holy rest day.
14. Evident reference is made to the Sabbath and the seven-day
week all through the patriarchal age. Genesis 2:1-3; 8:10,12;
29:27,28, etc.
15. It was a part of God's law before Sinai. Exodus 16:4,23-29.
16. Then God placed it in the heart of His moral law. Exodus
20:1-17. Why did He place it there if it was not like the other nine
precepts, which all admit to be immutable?
17. The seventh-day Sabbath was commanded by the voice of the
living God. Deuteronomy 4:12,13.
18. Then He wrote the commandment with His own finger.
Exodus 31:18.
19. He engraved it in the enduring stone, indicating its
imperishable nature. Deuteronomy 5:22.
20. It was sacredly preserved in the ark in the holy of holies.
Deuteronomy 10:1-5.
21. God forbade work upon the Sabbath, even in the most
hurrying times. Exodus 34:21.
22. God destroyed the Israelites in the wilderness because they
profaned the Sabbath. Ezekiel 20:12,13.
23. It is the sign of the true God, by which we are to know Him
from the false gods. Ezekiel 20:20.
24. God promised that Jerusalem should stand forever if the Jews
would keep the Sabbath. Jeremiah 17:24,25.
25. He sent them into the Babylonish captivity for breaking it.
Nehemiah 13:18.
26. He destroyed Jerusalem for its violation. Jeremiah 17:27.
27. God has pronounced a special blessing on all the Gentiles who
will keep it. Isaiah 56:6,7.
28. This is in the prophecy which refers wholly to the Christian
dispensation. See Isaiah 56.
29. God has promised to bless all who keep the Sabbath. Isaiah
56:2.
30. The Lord requires us to call it "honourable." Isaiah 58:13
Beware, you who take delight in calling it the "old Jewish
Sabbath," "a yoke of bondage," etc.
31. After the holy Sabbath has been trodden down "many
generations," it is to be restored in the last days. Isaiah 58:12,13.
32. All the holy prophets kept the seventh day.
33. When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His
life. Luke 4:16; John 15:10. Thus He followed His Father's
example at creation. Shall we not be safe in following the example
of both the Father and the Son?
34. The seventh day is the Lord's day. See Revelation 1:10; Mark
2:28; Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 20:10.
35. Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28), that is, to love and
protect it, as the husband is the lord of the wife, to love and
cherish her. 1 Peter 3:6.
36. He vindicated the Sabbath as a merciful institution designed
for man's good. Mark 2:23-28.
37. Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, He carefully taught how it
should be observed. Matthew 12:1-13.
38. He taught His disciples that they should do nothing upon the
Sabbath day but what was "lawful." Matthew 12:12.
39. He instructed His apostles that the Sabbath should be
prayerfully regarded forty years after His resurrection. Matthew
24:20.
40. The pious women who had been with Jesus carefully kept the
seventh day after His death. Luke 23:56.
41. Thirty years after Christ's resurrection, the Holy Spirit
expressly calls it "the sabbath day." Acts 13:14.
42. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, called it the "sabbath day" in
A.D. 45. Acts 13:27. Did not Paul know? Or shall we believe
modern teachers, who affirm that it ceased to be the Sabbath at the
resurrection of Christ?
43. Luke, the inspired Christian historian, writing as late as A.D.
62, calls it the "sabbath day." Acts 13:44.
44. The Gentile converts called it the Sabbath. Acts 13:42.
45. In the great Christian council, A.D. 49, in the presence of the
apostles and thousands of disciples, James calls it the "sabbath
day." Acts 15:21.
46. It was customary to hold prayer meetings upon that day. Acts
16:13.
47. Paul read the Scriptures in public meetings on that day. Acts
17:2,3.
48. It was his custom to preach upon that day. Acts 17:2,3.
49. The Book of Acts alone gives a record of his holding eightyfour
meetings upon that day. See Acts 13:14,44; 16:13; 17:2;
18:4,11.
50. There was never any dispute between the Christians and the
Jews about the Sabbath day. This is proof that the Christians still
observed the same day that the Jews did.
51. In all their accusations against Paul, they never charged him
with disregarding the Sabbath day. Why did they not, if he did not
keep it?
52. But Paul himself expressly declared that he had kept the law.
"Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple,
nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all." Acts
25:8. How could this be true if he had not kept the Sabbath?
53. The Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament fifty-nine
times, and always with respect, bearing the same title it had in the
Old Testament, "the sabbath day."
54. Not a word is said anywhere in the New Testament about the
Sabbath's being abolished, done away, changed, or anything of the
kind.
55. God has never given permission to any man to work upon it.
Reader, by what authority do you use the seventh day for common
labor?
56. No Christian of the New Testament, either before or after the
resurrection, ever did ordinary work upon the seventh day. Find
one case of the kind, and we will yield the question. Why should
modern Christians do differently from Bible Christians?
57. There is no record that God has ever removed His blessing or
sanctification from the seventh day?
58. As the Sabbath was kept in Eden before the fall, so it will be
observed eternally in the new earth after the restitution. Isaiah
66:22,23.
59. The seventh-day Sabbath was an important part of the law of
God, as it came from His own mouth, and was written by His own
finger upon stone at Sinai. See Exodus 20. When Jesus began His
work, He expressly declared that He had not come to destroy the
law. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the
prophets." Matthew 5:17.
60. Jesus severely condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites for
pretending to love God, while at the same time they made void
one of the Ten Commandments by their tradition. The keeping of
Sunday is only a tradition of men.

 2007/4/20 23:47Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! You know the truth brother!



We have already demonstrated that Sabbath is expressed in our resting in Christ from our works for righteousness. I want to copy over from the first thread on this so folk have a balanced answer.

*******

We do not establish the Sabbath in the sense you are trying to convey. I am sure the teachers at Galatia were quite crafty also; but the fact is Christ is our Sabbath Rest. The Sabbath is also a shadow of things to come, but the Body is of Christ.

Hebrews 4:1-16 describes how in Christ we have entered into God's rest from works. This is our observance of Sabbath today. We have shabbat from our own works for righteousness. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone that believes. The penalty for breaking the Sabbath was death. The same holds true today. If we are justified by the works of the law Christ shall profit us nothing. The expression of our fulfillment of the sabbath as we walk in the Spirit is that we rest in the finished work of the Cross. A Christian is compelled to observe Sabbbath in no other sense than this.

[Quote]

Ceremonial Law:

1. Is called, "the law contained in ordinances." Eph 2:15.
2. Was spoken by Moses. Lev 1:1-3.
3. Was written by Moses in a book. 11 Chron 35:12.
4. Was placed in the side of The Ark. Deut 31:24-26.
5. Was nailed to the cross. Col 2:14.
6. Was abolished by Christ. Eph 2:15.

10 Commandments:

1. Is called, the "royal law." James 2:8.
2. Was spoken by God. Deut 4:12,13.
3. Was written with the finger of God. Ex 31:18.
4. Was placed inside The Ark. Ex 40:20; Heb 9:4.
5. Is to "stand forever and ever." Ps 111:7,8.
6. Was not destroyed by Christ. Matt 5:17,18.




The Jews recognize that the first laws given by God were the Noachide laws. This was followed by the Ten Words and that became the 613 Laws. . Add to that the Oral law which eventually became the Talmud. If we look at the requirements for Gentile proselytes they were required to keep the Noachide laws. Acts fifteen strips this to just a hand full of commands. It is what was good to the Holy Spirit and to the Apostles. The Royal Law according to James 2:8 is to "Love your neighbor as yourself." This is the sum of all the law and the prophets. It has nothing to do with keeping the Sabbath in the literal sense.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/4/20 23:54Profile
RobertW
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 Re:

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Col. 2:16, 17)

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Romans 14:5)



Christ is the end of the Law to everyone who believes. This is not to say we are 'lawless' but it is certain that we will get no closer to the glory of God by merely re-establishing Shabbat as the formal day of Christian worship. First century Christians observed Shabbat on Saturday and continued on in fellowship with believers on the first day of the week. This practice ended when the [i]Perushim[/i] (Pharisees) established the "Birkat Ha Minim" (Curse of the Christian Heretics)

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. (I Cor. 16:2)



This is clearly Sunday. Sabbath began at the first star appearing on Friday night and ended when the first star appeared on Saturday. It is the Jews who believe that Messiah would return if every Jew on earth would observe Sabbath at one time. This is a tradition.

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (Gal. 3:3)



This is the question above all others. The people in Galatia had to endure the teaching of folk who came in believing they could improve the spiritual climate of the church by bringing the people back under certain aspects of the Mosiac law. Circumcision was one of them. Tithe is one that is often preached also. Sabbath is another. But it is impossible to find a deeper spirituality in coming under the Law again. Revival will not come because the people start observing Shabbat- it would actually be a step backwards.

The Ark represented the throne of God. As you entered the Tabernacle the sense was of ascending into heaven. Imagine the horizontal structure standing vertically. The veil prevented man from entering the throne room. It was 4 inches thick woven of one seam. Who could enter? Some say that God's glory drew the High Priest through the veil with the blood in the container in his hands. Yet, it was a clear barrier. This was true for the vast majority of departed souls as well as coming into the throne room of grace in prayer. There is a liberty that we have now that did not exist before. Beside of this the key to the New Covenant is the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven.

Having begun in the Spirit will we now improve upon our Spiritual state by coming under certain aspects of the Law? Certainly not. The key to revival is a fresh infilling of the Holy Spirit that causes us to live out the personality of God contained within the Law. Christ is our Sabbath rest. We have ceased from our own works as God did from His. If a person wants to observe Sabbath that is their own perogative. But to preach it as essential to spiritual blessing is to incur the wrath of Galatians 1. Paul said he wished that they were even cut-off that 'trouble' you. If I want to observe Sabbath I can. But I must not suggest that you 'must' or that somehow I am the more 'spiritual' or pleasing to God in the doing. It is a matter of conscience.



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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/4/20 23:58Profile





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