SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Ark of The Covenant, part 2

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )
PosterThread
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 The Ark of The Covenant, part 2

(Sorry, I thought I was replying and not posting.)

Our Creator instituted the Sabbath at the Creation of the world, before there were Israelites. He made the Sabbath for man, not, the Jews.

Obeserving days,months...again, the feasts,of the ceremonial law and not, the Ten Commandments.

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall ENTER into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not...in thy name done many wonderful works? ("Christians" do works in His name.) And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me ye that work iniquity." (Lawlessness)Matt 7:21-23.

The flip side is "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not his commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth (Jesus: John 14:6; the law: 119:142, and ALL the commandments: Ps 119:151) is not in him." 1 John 2:3,4.

If you don't keep His commandments, it is evidence, that, you are not under the New Covenant. Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10.

When Jesus gave us, the "Two Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law. Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18.

These two commandments, are a summation of the Ten: If you love the Lord, supremely, you will keep the first four. If you love your neighbour as yourself, you will, also, keep the last six.

"By THIS we know that we love the children of God (#2), when we love God and keep his commandments. For THIS is the love of God, (#1) that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2,3.

Do you find His commandments grievous? Then, how can you claim to be under the New Covenant? Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10.

Are you saying, that, we can worship other gods, bow down to graven images, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonor our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, covet and walk with a holy God?

How foolish!

The old man was conceived in sin. "The plowing of the wicked is sin." Without a new heart and His Spirit, all we do is sin. Why? Because, it is our nature. When we are born-again and have HIs nature within us, we are to crucify the flesh with it's passions and lusts and walk in His Spirit. "In Him is no sin" - "(the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:13.)He is holy. If we want to walk with Him, we must walk in holiness.

"What shall we say then? Shall we CONTINUE IN SIN (the "transgression of the law") that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Rom 6:1.

"By faith...Abraham obeyed." Heb 11:8. Faith and obedience to His commandments go hand in hand.

"Who forgiveth all thine iniquities: who healeth all thy diseases...As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us...To such as keep his covenant, and to those that REMEMBER his commandments, to do them" Ps 103.

 2007/4/17 17:45Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: The Ark of The Covenant, part 2

Hi again, sscr01.

"Our Creator instituted the Sabbath at the Creation of the world, before there were Israelites. He made the Sabbath for man, not, the Jews."


What do you mean by instituted?

The Bible says that the observance of the 7th day, as a Law, was given to the [b]children of Israel[/b]. I don't think speculations as to God's intentions for it are appropriate, epsecially when they are being put forth as facts, rather than suppositions.



Sscr01, these are a public forums, viewed all over the world. And you are setting forth doctrine.



[b][color=000000] Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.[/color][/b]


[b][color=000000]Speak thou also unto the children of Israel...[/color][/b]


[b][color=000000]...it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations[/color][/b]


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/4/17 19:08Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: The Ark of The Covenant, part 2

Post duplicated. Deleted.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/4/17 19:10Profile
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." Gen 2:2,3.

The children of Israel kept the Sabbath before the Ten Commandments were given. Ex 16:26-30.

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made, He saith not, And to thy seeds, as of many: but as of one, And to thy seed which is Christ." "And if ye be Christ's, then are YE Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Ga 3:16,29.

"For HE IS NOT A JEW, who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God." Rom 2:28,29.

The promises were made through Abraham to the children of promise (Rom 9:6-8), who are justified by faith - whether, Jew or Gentile. Ga 3:7; Eph 2:12,13: 3:6.

"The Sabbath was made for man." Jesus, fulfilled the law, competely. How did He keep the Sabbath? By worshipping the Father, fellowshipping with believers, casting our devils, healing the sick...

We are to "walk as He walked." 1 John 2:6.

 2007/4/17 20:00Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again sscr01.


"The children of Israel kept the Sabbath before the Ten Commandments were given. Ex 16:26-30."


Go back up a bit to verse 23:


[b][color=000000] And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.[/color][/b]



[i]...This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord[/i]


God's word to them was as much as Law to them.

This has nothing to do with the sabbath day being established as a Law unto mankind or the Ten Comandments, as you stated elsewhere



Quote:
The Ten Commandments are God's eternal Covenant with man





"The promises were made through Abraham to the children of promise..."


Right. The promises. Not the commandments. Certianly not the keeping of sabbath as a Law.


Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/4/17 21:05Profile
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

Yes - they kept the Sabbath before the Ten Commandments.

The point is, that, God recognizes the children of faith as the children of Abraham - both, Jew and Gentile.

It amazes me, how that, christians will claim to keep the Ten Commandments, except the 4th - the one He told us to "remember."

Where in the Scripture does it say, that, only, the children of Israel were to keep the Ten Commandments? It doesn't.

Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

 2007/4/17 21:50Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Keeping the Law under Grace

A greator commandment that is continuously broken by all of us is putting ourselves before the Lord, breaking the 1st, and to me, the most critical of the commandments, for if we do cotinuously break it, every time we do something in our own strengh and will, which all men do, and cannot help but do, they will break all the others as well.

Jesus spoke about what we are to do, but cannot do, except through Him, and it is what He died for.

KJV Matthew 22:36. Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38. This is the first and great commandment.
39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


As for the Sabbath, among Christians that is custom, not command, for it was not laid upon us by James at the Antioch council of the Apostles.

KJV Acts 15:28. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29. That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Yes, we need to attempt to keep the laws laid upon us by Jesus, but it was our inability to do so in the outer person, much less in the heart, that brought God to give Jesus to us for our propitiation.

No one can or could keep the law. That was the whole point.

Brother, do not lay upon us more than the Lord does, I pray you.

In Christ,


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/4/17 22:12Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi there once more sscr01 :-)


"Yes - they kept the Sabbath before the Ten Commandments."


Becuase they were [b]commanded[/b] to do so.






But again, that has nothing to do with the sabbath day being established as a Law unto mankind.


"Where in the Scripture does it say, that, only, the children of Israel were to keep the Ten Commandments?"



[b][color=000000] And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.[/color][/b] -Exodus 34:27-28


[i]...for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel[/i]


[u]with thee and with Israel[/u]


Besides this, Paul the Apostle says

"For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises..." -Romans 9:3-4


[i]my kinsmen according to the [u]flesh[/u]: Who are Israelites[/i]


[i]to whom pertaineth... the giving of the law[/i]



'Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."'


But also that...



[b][color=660033] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.[/color][/b]


[b][color=660033]This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.[/color][/b]



Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/4/17 22:17Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Quote:
Brother, do not lay upon us more than the Lord does, I pray you.

Amen!


Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchizedek met him.
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


_________________
D.Miller

 2007/4/17 22:27Profile
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

The Scriptures do not say, that, only, the children of Israel were to keep the Ten Commandments.

PRESBYTERIAN: "The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scripture, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath." - Dwight's theology

CONGREGATIONAL: "There is no command in the Bible requiring us to observe the first day of the week as the Christian Sabbath." - Fowler, Mode and Subjects of Baptism.

LUTHERAN: "The observance of the Lord's day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the church." - "Augsburg Confession of Faith," quoted in Cox's Sabbath Manual, p. 287.

EPISCOPALIAN: "The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a divine command in this respect, far from them and from the early apostolic church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday." -Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church, p. 186.

METHODIST: "It is true there is no positive command for infant baptism...Nor is ther any for keeping holy the first day of the week." - Rev. Amos Binney, Theological Compend, pp. 180,181, 1902 ed

BAPTIST: Dr Edward T. Hiscox, author of The Baptist Manual, before a group of ministers said, "There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all it's duties, privileges, and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament, absolutely not. There is no Scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.

"Of course," he continues, "I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day, as we learn from the Christian fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes branded with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, when adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!" - From a paper read before a New York Ministers' Conference, held Nov. 13, 1893.

There was, only, one commandment dealing with time - the 4th. Dan 7:25 says, The Antichrist "thinks to change TIMES and laws."

Rome says, "Of course the Catholic Church claims the change was her act...and the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." Thomas, H.F., Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath.

Again, Rome says, "It's (Sunday's change for Saturday) the MARK of our authority to OVER-RULE God's law." Father Enright, C.S.S.R., President of Redemptorist College, History of the Sabbath, page 802.

"Sunday is our MARK of authority...The church is ABOVE THE BIBLE and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923.

"The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No! by my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And, lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church." Father Enright.

A mark in the forehead, symbolizes worship. A mark in the hand, symbolizes service.

Pope John Paul 11, Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell have called for re-instituting the Sunday or "Blue Laws." They are, still, on the books in 26 states. In Virginia, the third infraction meant death!

Does this sound far-fetched?

How about a tree in the garden, determining the fate of all mankind.

Just like in the garden, it is a question of allegiance.

To whom do you give allegiance? To the apostate Catholic/Protestant religious system (as seen in Rev 17), or to the Word of God?

 2007/4/17 23:00Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy