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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 613 Laws of the Torah

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ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:

"5In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah..."


Have noticed this too before. But then look at this statement Paul makes of himself in Philippians...


"Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless."

Just something to consider.

Chris


...Well, yes, Paul was blameless concerning the righteousness of the law, and so was Zechariah, because when they sinned they were no doubt diligent to offer the sin offering the Law provided. And in so doing they were keeping the righteousness of the law.

But now what are people going to do who inevitably break one of these 613 laws of the Torah they are so sure God is enjoining upon them? Offer a bullock or a goat? But these can never take away sin (Heb. 10.4). They were ordained only in the forbearance of God till the True Sacrifice should come on the scene to TOTALLY REMOVE SIN from the hearts of the sanctified (of those who come unto God BY HIM).

AD


_________________
Allan Halton

 2007/4/17 14:22Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

I think Robert is saying, "Today there is no temple, so you cannot keep the 'laws' pertaining to the temple."

It's like trying to play basketball without a goal or a ball.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/4/17 14:37Profile









 Re:

Quote:

I think Robert is saying, "Today there is no temple, so you cannot keep the 'laws' pertaining to the temple."



Oh..I see what your saying. That makes sense.

 2007/4/17 14:51
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Yea.. Paul says the same thing about himself as the scriptures say about Zecharias.



Are we to deduce from this that both Paul and Zecharias were sinless?

: They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Romans 3:12)

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. (I Timothy 1:15)


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/4/17 14:58Profile
DesiJr
Member



Joined: 2006/1/6
Posts: 113


 Re:

Love God Love Love Jesus Love the Spirit Love others.

Live out your faith.

This is the answer to all questions.

 2007/4/17 15:15Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

No, they were not sinless; they were merely circumspect to offer what the law prescribed for a sin offering. And in doing so they were then "blameless" as far as the righteousness of the law was concerned, as far as what the Law said was the right thing to do.

These sacrifices, however, while they kept a man in good standing with God as far as the Law was concerned, could not make a man "perfect as pertaining to the conscience" (Heb. 9.9). It would take the bringing in of a New, a BETTER Covenant, to do this.

Now, Christians who are into keeping the Torah are very quick to say they don't mean keeping the sacrifices of the Law. God forbid. They still want the comfort of the Blood of Christ when they sin. But by seeking to be justified by the Law they ARE in fact distancing themselves from the provision of the Cross, and from the Blood of Christ. "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you who are justified by the law: ye are fallen from grace" (Gal. 5.4).

AD


_________________
Allan Halton

 2007/4/17 15:25Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Are we to deduce from this that both Paul and Zecharias were sinless?



No. I never said they were sinless but that they kept the law blamelessly which is what the scriptures say.

 2007/4/17 15:31
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
No. I never said they were sinless but that they kept the law blamelessly which is what the scriptures say.



I don't think we have ever talked about this in the forums, but it would be an interesting study, I think. Paul also said that he lived in all good conscience before God and man until 'this day'. I have often wondered what he meant by that. I think what he means is that he kept his conscience clear. If something was questionable he dealt with it. Another thing he says is that he kept his conscience 'void of offense.' This means also that he did not live in such a way that would lead others to stumble which is in keeping with the end of Romans.

The other word for blameless means unable to find fault. I wonder if the tense here is present. A 'here and now' blamelessness as opposed to a continual sinless perfection ( a perfect past).


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/4/17 16:06Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
I wonder if the tense here is present. A 'here and now' blamelessness as opposed to a continual sinless perfection ( a perfect past)



I'm not exactly sure which verse you were wondering about...

www.zhubert.com is a great site. You type the reference over on the left and it will give it to you in Greek (that is if you don't change the bible) and you move your mouse over the word and it will give you some info about it.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/4/17 16:29Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Preach,

Luke 1:6 for starters. The word in question is 'blameless'.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/4/17 16:49Profile





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