SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 1st John Contradicts Itself

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re: 1st John Contradicts Itself

Quote:
We are still sinners in need of a Savior because for the rest of our lives we will be completely dependant on Him to have kept all the Law. This was God’s righteous standard. We need Jesus everyday to fulfill this requirement for us. We must still confess our sins (concerning Moses’ Law) one to another and to God. This shows our dependency on Him.

We are still sinners? Who hath told you that you are still a sinner after that you have eaten of the Tree of Life??

We are overcomers! Sinners do not overcome, they are overcome by sin, and "God heareth not sinners, but if he be a worshipper of God, and doeth His will, him God heareth".

His will for us is to stand fast during our temptations.
His will for us is to worship Him during our trials.

1 John 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

We fall into sin because we are not standing for the truth of God's word! These "Young Men" overcame the wicked one. They endured temptation, and hardness as a good soldier.

We need the word tucked away in our hearts so that we will not sin against Him, these young men had the word abiding in them, it was quickened to them during thier time of temptation, they overcame the devil as Jesus did in the wilderness.

If we truly loved the LORD our God with ALL our heart soul mind and our strength, there is absolutely no room for ungodly lusts. You could say as Jesus said, "The prince of this world cometh and hath nothing in me".

When we are tempted, we need to stand our ground.

One thing that really encouraged me in my trials is that my trials our ordered of the LORD. The temptations are granted for my training,and the LORD is watching to see if I will stand, and in standing He will increase the pressure.

When the 3 Hebrew Children stood against the temptation to bow down and worship that image, the temperature of that fire was increased. Faith so swelled those men that Christ had to come down and stand with them during thier trial.

When you have endured temptation and God is strengthening the inner man, then read 1st John again, I am convinced you will have an entirely different outlook on those verses.

God Bless

 2007/4/15 12:48
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Aaron wrote:

Quote:
Notice that in Paul's list of things that will not "separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord"(Rom 8:38-39), ignorance is not mentioned?



Also...

Quote:
When we fail to focus our attention on God, we are only a heart beat away from committing sin. Essentially, the ignorance of God is a silent claim of sinlessness. And this because it implies a lack of our need of the keeping and sustaining power of God, to keep us from sin.



Amen

Here are some verses which speak to this precept...

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple.

Psa 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.


Pro 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Pro 1:32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

Pro 7:7 And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding,

Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent [man] looketh well to his going.

Pro 14:18 The simple inherit folly: but the prudent are crowned with knowledge.


Do you understand what Brother Aaron and Scripture are saying...

In Christ
Jeff



_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/4/15 13:00Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His Seed (the God Seed) remaineth in Him: (Christ) and He cannot sin, because He is born of God.

The Whosoever is Christ and Christ in the believer, The Only begotten and the born again, born from above. His Seed is The God Seed, (Spermah of God) Christ is the only begotten of that Seed, the believer is the rebirthed or born again of that Seed which is Christ. The Christ Seed is the Spirit of Christ that all believers must have or they are none of His.

Christ does not sin, consequently the Spirit of Christ in the believer cannot sin either. But if the believer does sin, "we have an advocate with the Father" even Christ Jesus Himself and If we do sin, we confess, "God is faithful to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness". All unrighteousness is sin, if we are cleansed from all unrighteousness, we are cleansed from all sin. If the flesh never has the capacity to sin again after rebirth, then confession would not be even part of our life in Christ. We are perfect in Christ and Christ is perfect in us, Spirit perfect, that is Christ, soul/mind becoming perfect, because we now have the mind of Christ and we in renewing our old man mind and are becoming perfect in soul. We will be perfect in body on resurrection day, because the body will be just like His Body that is Perfect.

We must rightly divide the Word of God and Who does that for us? Not self but The Holy Spirit Teacher Himself. It may take time for all the old man mind to become clear enough to receive the truth, but it will happen if we keep studying the Word of Truth and believe that Jesus Christ is now our life and Mind and we are becoming just like Him, Me, Phillip Christ who's life is Christ, today, tomorrow and forever.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Even in the Past, knowing that Christ in you the Hope of Glory was the Father's Plan before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

Now This scripture makes since.

1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, (God) and He (God)in him. And hereby we know that He (God) abideth in us, by the Spirit (Christ) which He (God) hath given us.

"Love one another even as I have love you."

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily.

He gave Himself that this might be true.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it.

Gal 1:4 Who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Tts 2:14 Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

First John does not contradict itself, it is true and perfect, the Word of God.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/4/15 18:23Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The Whosoever is Christ and Christ in the believer, The Only begotten and the born again, born from above. His Seed is The God Seed, (Spermah of God) Christ is the only begotten of that Seed, the believer is the rebirthed or born again of that Seed which is Christ. The Christ Seed is the Spirit of Christ that all believers must have or they are none of His

Sweet Words, I receive it!! Amen

 2007/4/15 20:13
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Compliments wrote:

Quote:
We fall into sin because we are not standing for the truth of God's word! These "Young Men" overcame the wicked one. They endured temptation, and hardness as a good soldier.



How has the word of God shown you the ways of Satan?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/4/16 0:22Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
Christ does not sin, consequently the Spirit of Christ in the believer cannot sin either. But if the believer does sin, "we have an advocate with the Father" even Christ Jesus Himself and If we do sin, we confess, "God is faithful to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness". All unrighteousness is sin, if we are cleansed from all unrighteousness, we are cleansed from all sin. If the flesh never has the capacity to sin again after rebirth, then confession would not be even part of our life in Christ.



I agree. Especially with your thought, "If the flesh never has the capacity to sin again after rebirth, then confession would not be even part of our life in Christ."

Have you considered the sin that we commit in ignorance?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/4/16 0:26Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
It may take time for all the old man mind to become clear enough to receive the truth, but it will happen if we keep studying the Word of Truth and believe that Jesus Christ is now our life and Mind and we are becoming just like Him, Me, Phillip Christ who's life is Christ, today, tomorrow and forever.



I see it differently. The old man's mind will never be made perfect. It cannot on it's own understand the things of the Spirit. The only way for us to live this life for Him comes in the same way Christ demonstrated for us when He was man on this earth. He followed the Holy Spirit....

We can only learn as the Holy Spirit leads...and this is the way that our High Priest seated in the heavens, ministers to us in the ways that we should walk...we then learn of the ways Jesus ministers to us so that we do overcome this world. We all should have a "story" that is our own testimony of how He loves us. This includes mercy, forgiveness, conviction, correction, judgement, strength, peace, joy, etc...



In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/4/16 0:32Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

crsschk wrote:
[b]1Jn 3:9 -
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin[/b] - This passage must either mean that they who are born of God, that is, who are true Christians, do not sin habitually and characteristically, or that everyone who is a true Christian is absolutely perfect, and never commits any sin. If it can be used as referring to the doctrine of absolute perfection at all, it proves, not that Christians may be perfect, or that a “portion” of them are, but that all are. But who can maintain this? Who can believe that John meant to affirm this? Nothing can be clearer than that the passage has not this meaning, and that John did not teach a doctrine so contrary to the current strain of the Scriptures, and to fact; and if he did not teach this, then in this whole passage he refers to those who are habitually and characteristically righteous.



Mike,

You know I love you bro, but I have to say that I disagree with you hear. Again citing Keith Daniel's exposition on 1 John, there is a part (which is found planning across the two halves, from the end of the first, to the start of the second) where Keith speaks of a theological debate that he sat in on, where this very verse was mentioned. One theologian got up and made the same statement that you have made. The following speaker got up and said that all the earliest manuscripts are best translated as the KJV does, in this verse. He then question why would someone who was well versed in Greek (which both speakers were) would lie about it's translation.

While I wouldn't go so far, I think that what the problem here is a lack of the full comprehension of the mercy of God. Mercy is something that cannot exist without a guilty party, or otherwise mercy would not be required. It is often tempting to try and take a verse beyond what it is saying, rather than leave it with it's words to speak for themselves. The verse merely says that the one who is born of God [b]doesn't sin[/b]. Not will not, nor cannot, but does not. "Does not" is a present term. It it independent of past and future. Whether I [b]did sin[/b] or [b]will sin[/b], it neither adds, nor removes from the fact that I {b]do not sin[/b].

This would be fine to leave this, with this thought, however it follows on to speak of one who {b]cannot sin[/b]. The only thing is, these words are not stated on their own, but it connected with the concept of having [b]his seed remaining" in that one. This can be taken as a condition. Ie, [b]No seed[/b] = [b]will sin[/b], [b]with seed[/b] = [b]no sin[/b]. The question that needs to be asked, is how does the seed get in us, and how does it [b]remain[/b] in us?

This would make a lot more sense than concluding that John couldn't have meant "doesn't/cannot sin", based on the fact that no one is sinless. It is neither logical, nor consistent with the rest of the epistle, which leans so heavily on the mercy of God, who forgives and cleanses.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2007/4/16 8:38Profile









 Re:

Quote:
How has the word of God shown you the ways of Satan?

Hi Jeff, I am trying to wrap my mind around this question, can you reword it differently, I don't understand what is being asked of me. Thanks

 2007/4/16 8:43









 Re:

Philip said:

Quote:
It may take time for all the old man mind to become clear enough to receive the truth

The "old man mind" can never be clear enough to receive any truth whatsoever, "It's not subject unto the law of God neither indeed can be"

The "old man mind" "Cannot receive the things of God", it's destiny is an overhaul. The carnal mind has been totaled, it's been wrecked. We need a transformation, it can't be trusted. The Mind of Christ is our inheritance. Lets take it by force.

 2007/4/16 8:55





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy