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timmyspitz
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Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 19
Cottonwood, Arizona

 mark of the beast- a real mark not just a chip

For awhile it has been suggested people being "chipped" would lead to the mark of the beast. And up until recently I had a hard time trying to square that with the reference of it being called a "mark." Then I was sent the following article about the latest form of RFID. For those unfamiliar with what RFID is the first section will explain. The second section will explain the use of it in an ink that in suggested for tattooing.

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RFID
(Radio Frequency IDentification)
A data collection technology that uses electronic tags for storing data. The tag, also known as an "electronic label," "transponder" or "code plate," is made up of an RFID chip attached to an antenna. Transmitting in the kilohertz, megahertz and gigahertz ranges, tags may be battery-powered or derive their power from the RF waves coming from the reader

Uses so far
In 1993, the E-ZPass highway toll system was launched in the Northeast. In 1996, General Motors introduced OnStar, which is satellite-based RFID. A year later, Mobil's Speedpass let people wave a keychain tag at the gas pump to pay by credit card. After the turn of the century, RFID began to proliferate

When Tags Cost a Few Cents
When the price of tags becomes economical enough, it is expected that RFID will take off in a myriad of areas. Pundits have suggested applications such as reading a full supermarket cart as it passes by the reader, a washer/dryer that determines its settings from clothing tags and a refrigerator that automatically creates a shopping list.

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Invisible RFID Ink Safe For Cattle And People, Company Says
By K.C. Jones
InformationWeek

Jan 10, 2007 04:49 PM
(Radio Frequency Identification)
The process developed by Somark involves a geometric array of micro-needles and an ink capsule, which is used to 'tattoo' an animal. The ink can be detected from 4 feet away.
A startup company developing chipless RFID ink has tested its product on cattle and laboratory rats.
Somark Innovations announced this week that it successfully tested biocompatible RFID ink, which can be read through animal hairs. The passive RFID technology could be used to identify and track cows to reduce financial losses from Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (mad cow disease) scares. Somark, which formed in 2005, is located at the Center for Emerging Technologies in St. Louis. The company is raising Series A equity financing and plans to license the technology to secondary markets, which could include laboratory animals, dogs, cats, prime cuts of meat, and military personnel.
Chief scientist Ramos Mays said the tests provide a true proof-of-principle and mitigate most of the technological risks in terms of the product's performance. "This proves the ability to create a synthetic biometric or fake fingerprint with biocompatible, chipless RFID ink and read it through hair," he said.
Co-founder Mark Pydynowski said during an interview Wednesday that the ink doesn't contain any metals and can be either invisible or colored. He declined to say what is in the ink, but said he's certain that it is 100% biocompatible and chemically inert. He also said it is safe for people and animals.
The process developed by Somark involves a geometric array of micro-needles and a reusable applicator with a one-time-use ink capsule. Pydynowski said it takes five to 10 seconds to "stamp or tattoo" an animal, and there is no need to remove the fur. The ink remains in the dermal layer, and a reader can detect it from 4 feet away.
"Conceptually, you can think of it in the same way that visible light is reflected by mirrors," he said, adding that the actual process is slightly different and proprietary.
The amount of information contained in the ink depends on the surface area available, he said. The U.S. Department of Agriculture calls for a 15-digit number to track cattle. The first three digits are "840" for the U.S. country code. The remaining digits are unique identifiers. The numbers would link to a database containing more information.
"It can say where it has been, who it has talked to, who it has eaten with, and who else it has been in contact with," Pydynowski said.
Ranchers and others in the agricultural industry can choose a covert stamping system, which would make it impossible for cattle thieves to tell which animals have been marked and easy for those checking for stolen cattle to determine a cow's source. Pydynowski said the technology is an improvement over ear tags, which can be detached from cows and other products.
The technology could verify that cuts of meat originated in a hormone-free environment, Pydynowski said, adding that consumers would destroy the system by breaking down the ink when chewing the meat. In other words, Big Brother wouldn't know whether someone ate a Big Mac or a filet mignon, according to Pydynowski's explanation. However, the government and agricultural producers and retailers could track e-coli outbreaks in spinach, he said.
The ink also could be used to track and rescue soldiers, Pydynowski said.
"It could help identify friends or foes, prevent friendly fire, and help save soldiers' lives," he said. "It's a very scary proposition when you're dealing with humans, but with military personnel, we're talking about saving soldiers' lives and it may be something worthwhile."


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Tim Spitzke

 2007/4/12 14:25Profile
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Joined: 2005/7/11
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 Re: mark of the beast- a real mark not just a chip

Quote:
mark of the beast- a real mark not just a chip



Revelation 13:16-18
“Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.” Also referred to in Revelation 14:9, 14:11, 16:2, 19:20 and 20:4.

Is it a literal mark or is it symbolic?

First let’s look at Revelation 3:11-13, “I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Is this to be taken literal or symbolic? It is widely understood that this is a symbolic mark that God puts upon a person to symbolize that this person belongs to him. It is similar to or referring to the Holy Spirit.
2 Corinthians 1:22, “and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.”
Ephesians 1:13, “In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”
Ephesians 4:30, “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”

Also, are we to take Ezekiel 9:3-5 literally or symbolically?
“Now the glory of the God of Israel had gone up from the cherub on which it rested to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed in linen, who had the writing case at his waist. And the LORD said to him, "Pass through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it." And to the others he said in my hearing, "Pass through the city after him, and strike. Your eye shall not spare, and you shall show no pity.”

Through my study of scripture (and I admit I can be wrong) I do not see the ‘mark of the beast’ as a literal mark or chip that is implanted or written upon a person. This view was made popular by the futurist-literalist expositors or Revelation who fail to understand that Revelation is a prophetic book that is full of symbols. (Ex. Lamb = Jesus, Dragon = Satan, seven stars = angels of the seven churches, and seven lampstands are the seven churches.)

As to the meaning of the ‘mark of the beast’ symbolically? I have my opinions, but I will wait to share.

 2007/4/12 14:48Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Through my study of scripture (and I admit I can be wrong) I do not see the ‘mark of the beast’ as a literal mark or chip that is implanted or written upon a person.



What do you believe it is that keeps people from being able to buy or sell?

 2007/4/12 15:04
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

This is from a Historical view of the verses quoted, and it seems to make sense.

He causes all, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, and the free and the slave, to be given marks on their right hands, or on their foreheads; and that no one would be able to buy or to sell, unless he has that mark, the name of the beast or the number of his name. (Revelation 13:16-17)

In these verses we read of the "mark" or sign that the Beast caused everyone to receive on the right hand or on the forehead. Unless they received this mark they could not buy or sell. The power of the Papacy over the world in the Dark Ages was so great, that those who were heretics (those not of the Catholic mind) found it difficult to "buy or sell". Whole provinces had sanctions put on them until they submitted to Papal power or died. In 1163 AD The Council of Tours stripped heretics of their goods, forbade anyone to relieve them, and left them to perish without food and drink. The power of preventing buying or selling was exercised by the Popes when they laid countries under what was called an "Interdict".

It’s possible that the “mark” or “sign” specifically refers to the Roman practice of marking its followers with the Sign of the "Cross".

Dr. Basil Atkinson says that in the Catechism of one of the Popes, the question is asked. "What is a Christian?" The answer in the Catechism to this question is: "A Christian is one who has received the MARK or SIGN of the cross made with the right hand on the forehead.”

This cross originally had nothing to do with the death of Jesus. It was a very old heathen sign with an unclean meaning and was brought into the Christian Church by the mass of unconverted people, who came Considering how Revelation is a Symbolic Book, another concept is that this symbolises our actions (The right hand) and our thought life (The forehead). Unless you thought like a Catholic and did as a Catholic in those days, you were sanctioned. This ties up with other verses in Revelation about receiving a mark.


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patrick heaviside

 2007/4/12 15:22Profile
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Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
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 Re:

Good information roaringlamb.

May I add the following:
[url=http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/PeoplesNewTestament/pnt.cgi?book=re&chapter=13#Re13_16]Peoples New Testament[/url]
15-17. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast. The image of the beast, of the old Pagan power, this eighth head, which is the beast and of the seven, is not a lifeless image. The arts of the dragon lamb gave it life. The spiritual power built up the temporal and gave it imperial and despotic dominion. It had power to slay all who would not worship it. The awful dragonnades in Southern France, the frightful work of the Inquisition, the merciless persecution in Holland, the scenes of blood and death caused by Rome in many lands, are the fulfillment. 16. He causeth all . . . to receive a mark. The mark of the beast is some stamp or sign, by which all its worshipers should be known. In ancient days slaves were sometimes branded, as cattle are in our own age. The brand or mark of the beast would be some indelible sign which would designate with certainty those who were subject to his authority. A mark in the hand is supposed by some to represent the practice, while a mark in the forehead indicates the profession of life. It is remarkable, however, that a mark on the forehead, the sign of the cross made with water, converts a person into a Roman Catholic, and without this mark none are regarded as heirs of salvation. 17. No man might buy or sell, etc. It has been common for Catholics to be forbidden to patronize those who were not loyal to the Pope. At least three councils are named, those of Tours, of Constance and the Lateran, which have expressly forbidden business intercourse with heretics.


[url=http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/WesleysExplanatoryNotes/wes.cgi?book=re&chapter=13#Re13_16]John Wesley's Notes[/url]
13:16 On their forehead - The most zealous of his followers will probably choose this. Others may receive it on their hand.
13:17 That no man might buy or sell - Such edicts have been published long since against the poor Vaudois. But he that had the mark, namely, the name of the first beast, or the number of his name - The name of the beast is that which he bears through his whole duration; namely, that of Papa or Pope: the number of his name is the whole time during which he bears this name. Whosoever, therefore, receives the mark of the beast does as much as if he said expressly, "I acknowledge the present Papacy, as proceeding from God;" or, "I acknowledge that what St. Gregory VII. has done, according to his legend, (authorized by Benedict XIII.,) and what has been maintained in virtue thereof, by his successors to this day, is from God." By the former, a man hath the name of the beast as a mark; by the latter, the number of his name. In a word, to have the name of the beast is, to acknowledge His papal Holiness; to have the number of his name is, to acknowledge the papal succession. The second beast will enforce the receiving this mark under the severest penalties.

[url=http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/GillsExpositionoftheBible/gil.cgi?book=re&chapter=13&verse=16]John Gill's Exposition of the Bible[/url]
those who were obliged to receive the mark in the right hand seem to be the clergy, such who entered into holy orders; who lifted up their right hand, and swore and vowed allegiance to the pope, and testified they were ready to defend and support his religion and interest; and who in their ordination are said to have an indelible character impressed on them: and those who received the mark in their foreheads are the common people in general, who one and all have the same impress upon them; which may intend either the sign of the cross in baptism, or rather their open confession of the Popish religion, which they as publicly avow and declare as if it had been written on their foreheads.

Revelation is God's revealing of Jesus Christ. We know from scripture that the church is the representation of Jesus' body on the earth. Revelation is the presenting of church history to the church to comfort her and encourage her. Revelation 13 is the prophesy of the Dark Ages in which non-Catholics in Catholic areas were not allowed to buy or sell unless they were Catholic.

 2007/4/12 15:47Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1584


 Re: mark of the beast- a real mark not just a chip

Hi,
This is the real problem though what happens the people that recieve the mark.It must be voluntary in some way but and the people who get the mark must know to a certain degree what they are at.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
rgds Staff

 2007/4/12 18:00Profile









 Re: mark of the beast- a real mark not just a chip

Quote:
Branding HIstory:

Branding originated as the act of using a heated tool to mark livestock as property, and to mark criminals, either as a public warning or a sign of disgrace. The practice of branding humans began before recorded history and ended in western culture as a form of punishment in the late 1800s. The act of branding has since evolved from its early uses, so that it now connotes the science of “burning” qualities and attributes into the minds of consumers, in order to yield emotional relationships and loyalties.

Historically, a brand was any visible mark created for identification. Today, a brand includes any identifiable or subconscious characteristic, including the many qualities and emotions contained in a consumer’s relationship with an entity, be it a company, product, service or individual. Therefore, the term “branding” is now synonymous with relationship-building.

Brands in the field of marketing originated in the 19th century with the advent of packaged goods. Industrialization moved the production of many household items, such as soap, from local communities to centralized factories. When shipping their items, the factories would literally brand their logo or insignia on the barrels used, which is where the term comes from.

These factories, generating mass-produced goods, needed to sell their products to a wider market, to a customer base familiar only with local goods. It quickly became apparent that a generic package of soap had difficulty competing with familiar, local products. The packaged goods manufacturers needed to convince the market that the public could place just as much trust in the non-local product. Campbell soup, Coca-Cola, Juicy Fruit gum, Aunt Jemima, and Quaker Oats were among the first products to be 'branded', in an effort to increase the consumer's familiarity with their products. Many brands of that era, such as Uncle Ben's rice and Kellogg's breakfast cereal furnish illustrations of the problem.

Around 1900, James Walter Thompson published a house ad explaining trademark advertising. This was an early commercial explanation of what we now know as branding. Companies soon adopted slogans, mascots, and jingles which began to appear on radio and early television. By the 1940s,{Mildred Pierce[1]} manufacturers began to recognize the way in which consumers were developing relationships with their brands in a social/psychological/anthropological sense.

From there, manufacturers quickly learned to associate other kinds of brand values, such as youthfulness, fun or luxury, with their products. This began the practice we now know as branding, where it is felt that consumers buy the brand instead of the product. This trend continued to the 1980s, which have been described as "brand equity mania".[1] In 1988, when Phillip Morris purchased Kraft for six times what the company was worth on paper; it was felt that what they really purchased was its brand name.

A brand is a customer experience represented by a collection of images and ideas; often, it refers to a symbol such as a name, logo, slogan, and design scheme. Brand recognition and other reactions are created by the accumulation of experiences with the specific product or service, both directly relating to its use, and through the influence of advertising, design, and media commentary. A brand is a symbolic embodiment of all the information connected to a company, product or service. A brand serves to create associations and expectations among products made by a producer. A brand often includes an explicit logo, fonts, color schemes, symbols, sound which may be developed to represent implicit values, ideas, and even personality.

The brand, and "branding" and brand equity have become increasingly important components of culture and the economy, now being described as "cultural accessories and personal philosophies".

[b]Branding originated as the act of using a heated tool to mark livestock as property, and to mark criminals, either as a public warning or a sign of disgrace. The practice of branding humans began before recorded history and ended in western culture as a form of punishment in the late 1800s. The act of branding has since evolved from its early uses, so that it now connotes the science of “burning” qualities and attributes into the minds of consumers, in order to yield emotional relationships and loyalties.[/b]

Historically, a brand was any visible mark created for identification. Today, a brand includes any identifiable or subconscious characteristic, including the many qualities and emotions contained in a consumer’s relationship with an entity, be it a company, product, service or individual. Therefore, the term “branding” is now synonymous with relationship-building.

Contrary to popular belief, a brand is not a mark, logo, or trademark. Marks, logos and trademarks may be the most easily identifiable attributes of brands, but these signifiers act as simple visual links that embody the complex emotional attributes contained in any relationship between entities and their consumers: the brand is the relationship, and the visual cue — be it a mark, logo, or trademark — that works to represent, evoke and enhance the relationship.

Brands have become the most valuable and protected assets of corporations, because they enable the introduction of new commodities while concurrently maintaining or strengthening relationships with consumers.

Some marketers distinguish the psychological aspect of a brand from the experiential aspect. The experiential aspect consists of the sum of all points of contact with the brand and is known as the 'brand experience'. The psychological aspect, sometimes referred to as the 'brand image', is a symbolic construct created within the minds of people and consists of all the information and expectations associated with a product or service.

In economic terms the "brand" is, in effect, a device to create a "monopoly" — or at least some form of "imperfect competition" — so that the brand owner can obtain some of the benefits which accrue to a monopoly, particularly those related to decreased price competition. In this context, most "branding" is established by promotional means. However, there is also a legal dimension, for it is essential that the brand names and trademarks are protected by all means available. The monopoly may also be extended, or even created, by patent, copyright, trade secret (e.g. secret recipe), and other sui generis intellectual property regimes (e.g.: Plant Varieties Act, Design Act).

From [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand]Brand: Wikipedia[/url]

 2007/4/12 18:05
JennRich
Member



Joined: 2006/7/17
Posts: 140
Alabama

 Re:

sscott wrote:

Quote:
What do you believe it is that keeps people from being able to buy or sell?



I think it will have a great deal to do with whether you accept homosexuality as "normal" or not. Don't y'all? I think that people will be required to embrace some kind of creed, in which will be tenents that go directly against God's word.

Then the "mark" -- ink or whatever it is -- will be required on each person to line up with technological standards of the day. It will be probably be used to buy groceries, medicine, plane tickets, etc. If you reject the creed and thus the mark, you can no longer participate in commerce.


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Jennifer Richardson

 2007/4/12 21:38Profile









 Re:

My opinion, and it's an opinion only, is that just about everyone in the West already has the precursors to the mark.

Consider...

...how can one get a job, go to university, open a bank account, or get a driver's license without a SSI or SIN (in Canada) number?

...the overwhelming popularity of credit and debit cards that you have to "sign" for or punch in your PIN number.

...that technologies are already available to our governments to retrieve all our personal, financial, and familial data with a few keystrokes.

...that when you deal with the government, you give them your SSI or SIN number FIRST, then they ask for address and birthdate for identity confirmation.

After considering all this, can you tell me you work, buy, and sell without a personal number that is a substitute for your name?

We're only a nuke, a plague, a drought, or an economic collapse away from a new and horrific "system".

But that's only an opinion.

 2007/4/12 22:07









 Re:

Identity theft is on the rise. Our social security numbers are more than likely being used at this very monent by an illegal alien. This will prove to be a huge gap in the system. This (among many other things), will be a tool to help push the mark.

Abduction cases are always on the air waves being pushed by the media.

The threat of terrorism is causing extreme paranoia and anxiety. To have a way to tell if someone is a threat or not would also be a major benefactor.

Corporate America is starting to see the power they have if they work together. The murging of huge corporations such as K-mart and Sears, are only a start of whats going to happen.

Everything is coming together. It's almost over.

Keep the faith. ;-)

 2007/4/12 22:52





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