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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : False Prophets: Isaiah & Jonah??

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 False Prophets: Isaiah & Jonah??

Were Isaiah and Jonah false prophets? Was Jesus Christ a liar? Does you theology allow Isaiah and Jonah to be true prophets? Does your theology allow Jesus Christ to be truthful?

Here is a chart I made answering some of these questions:

http://openairoutreach.com/albums/adobe/OpenTheismProphecy3.sized.jpg

 2007/4/11 14:44









 Re: False Prophets: Isaiah & Jonah??

I find the title of this thread insulting.

 2007/4/11 16:11









 Re: False Prophets: Isaiah & Jonah??


Hi Jesse,

I have a little sympathy with Compliments' reaction to your title.

Let me add though, that as Jesus quotes 'the sign of the prophet Jonas' and Matthew regularly quotes Isaiah - just two small points to consider - if the whole weight of scripture is included in your deliberations, you are being unnecessarily provocative here.


John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.


(NKJV) Hebrews 1
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by [i]His[/i] Son,

John 6:51
"I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world."


The word is alive.

God made the world, then decided to flood it. No longer was it vegetated and populated as at first.

This is the whole story of scripture, that an eternal king was promised to David's line, and when He came, His geneology was peppered with such distinctions as - Rahab, Ruth, and no earthly father. This was God fulfilling His own word, but [i]not[/i] how mankind would have attended to it.

 2007/4/11 16:29









 Re:

I'd be very insulted if someone claimed that Isaiah and Jonah were false prophets!

But unfortinately, there are some "orthodox" theologians today who say that if Jonah and Isaiah gave unfulfilled prophecies, then they were false prophets.

So I made that chart to reconcile how neither Isaiah nor Jonah were false prophets, because their prophecies were totally true at the time, but God decided to change His plans.

 2007/4/11 16:42
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Lazarus, I don't think God ever changed his plan, however to us who think chronologically it appears he did.

As CS Lewis once suggested, to understand how God sees time, draw a line with two ends in a blank sheet of paper, then look at the entire paper. We se the line as a progression, but God sees it as a whole. We live within time, but God is eternal and separate.

'Change' is a charged word. God gives all men free will, and the prophets simply stated what would happen to these people if they chose to sin and be separated from God. But the men of ninevah repented and were spared. Does this mean God changed his plan? Not necessarily. Does it mean the prophets prophesied in error... that would be a wrong assumption as well.

Frankly put, this isn't about prophesy, this is about the nature of God, he is a merciful God. He CANNOT change... he is always merciful, but also just. Always loving, but also jealous.

God did not change his mind, that would say that God was imperfect in the first place. God extended mercy to those whom he chose to show mercy. This is in line with the character of God.

He gave them the opportunity to repent through prophets... and they repented. I cannot help but think about David and the prophet Nathan. God still killed David's child, which showed God's justice. But with David's repentance, God showed mercy to him and Israel.

Good read would be AW Tozer, Knowledge of the Holy.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/4/11 16:52Profile
vico
Member



Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 258


 Re:

Quote:
So I made that chart to reconcile


"you don't need to walk before a lion with a sword" ~Charles Spurgon, in response to a request to join a society for the defense of the Bible.

"My word shall never pass away" - Jesus

Just because we can't reconcile two truths does not make either of them untrue. Our understanding is limited, and often times trying to figure God out can be a dangerous thing. I've seen people fall into deep error trying to figure God out. His ways are above our ways and His works are beyond our comprehension. Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

I'm not rejecting all you had to say there though. :-)

The Lord bless you brother as you seek God.

1Corinthians 1:11-16 "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

 2007/4/11 19:35Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Hmmmm... a rather pointless thread.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/4/11 20:42Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
But unfortinately, there are some "orthodox" theologians today who say that if Jonah and Isaiah gave unfulfilled prophecies, then they were false prophets.



In case anyone doesn't know, Jesse is promoting open theism with this post.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_theism] Open Theism[/url]


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/4/12 11:30Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Well, wouldn't surprise me if he was. I pray not though. Are you sure?


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/4/12 11:34Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Jesse, you are clearly and unapologetically promoting Open Theism. The title of your chart "OpenTheismProphecy3" just proves that.

I am seriously concerned about your doctrine. I love your passion to see people come to a knowledge of Christ, but if you preach an 'Open Theism' God then you have strayed from the truth of scripture.

I admire your zeal, but I will caution you with Paul's words in Romans 10:2, "For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge." Brother, the God of the Bible knows all things and does not change His mind. God does present some 'If you do this, this will happen' scenarios, but He does not change His mind.

Blessings Brother.

 2007/4/12 11:41Profile





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