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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Tongues as Evidence?

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 Re:

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blinx wrote:
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I once met someone who seemed to have a genuine gift of tongues (though I'm not sure if I was in a place to discern it for certain at the time)and wasn't even born again - and knew it!

Oh, c'mon sister! How can someone have a gift of the Holy Spirit without having the Holy Spirit (born again)?

How can a Christmas tree have chocolate Santas on it, without being a chocolate Santa tree?
:-P

There are scriptural examples of wicked men having a genuine gift of prophecy (Balaam and Caiaphas), so I don't see why that couldn't also be true of tongues.

I know it sounds unlikely. The lady concerned genuinely loved and admired Jesus but clearly, as she admitted, didn't know Him personally yet, (she prayed to receive Him on that occasion I speak of).

As I said, I don't know for certain that the gift was genuine, but am certain it's possible. Indeed I heard one experienced man of God (GW North) say that he'd seen the same thing - people who speak in tongues but [i]know[/i] they don't have Jesus living in their heart.

Jeannette

 2007/4/11 10:29









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KrispyKrittr wrote:
Some Catholics and Mormons claim to speak in tongues. There are some sects of Hinduism that claim to speak in tongues. Satanist claim to be able to speak in tongues. Just because someone claims to speak in tongues is not evidence of anything.

Do I believe tongues exists today? Yes, but I believe 90% of what we see in the church is not real. I dont believe it's demonic, mind you. I just believe it's contrived... sometimes knowingly, sometimes not.

I agree with everything Corey said, and believe me folks... I've seen it all. Used to be right in the middle of it.


True, Krispy - except that in the case of all the above (except Catholics perhaps?) I think the tongues would be almost certainly demonic.

I've "seen it all" too; except let's not get too cynical Bro. There [i]are[/i] churches where geniune spiritual gifts are used wisely and in the Holy Spirit.

It's possible to use a genuine spiritual gift in the flesh, (Samson, for example, obviously did for most of his life). Same as you can use any tool for a wrong purpose. God doesn't always withdraw His anointing at once. Or, if He does, a person in real, extreme rebellion against Him will (knowingly or otherwise) make use of demonic gifts, which the Enemy will gladly supply)

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Living a seperated (holy) life unto God, and serving His people is evidence of being filled with the Spirit.

Amen to that

Jeannette

 2007/4/11 10:44









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True prophecy is in accord with Biblical principles and in the same Holy Spirit who inspired Scripture.

I think no-one here would claim authority for a present day prophecy if it contradicts Scripture.

I'm surprised that you say you have probably never heard true tongues or prophecy - although there is a lot of false going around, which probably put you off. There are those in ths Forum who have true prophetic gifting, and probably live lives consistent with this.



For me, it really comes down to logic: God should have better words, grammer, and syntax than the modern "prophet" - but they still "hum" and "uh" while they're "waiting" for the next word... as if God needs time to think... and it ends up sounding just like good ol' human drivel.

Amos was a lowly, uneducated shepard. When the LORD spoke through him, he became a poetical, angelical, genius.

I needn't point out that all the modern day "prophets", including some here, that have been "wrong"... the ancients would "stone" a prophet or prophetess to death if they were wrong just "once".

When the last two witnesses come the sheep will recognize the true language of God and His power and authority when spoken through a prophet. They won't ever be wrong when they speak of and for God. Their words will be like fire... and maybe real fire. They will stop the rains. And after we kill them, they will be resurrected in full view of everyone, and carried up into heaven in a cloud.

If they come in our lifetimes, I pray that everyone here will recognize them for who and what they are... and aren't disappointed, and don't miss their coming, if they don't babble in "tongues".

Until then, I'll "test every spirit" to see if it's from God.

 2007/4/11 16:37









 Re:

It seems that even the discussion of this important truth brings about "mans opinions". I am not so interested in what so and so said or in good fruit and bad fruit in other peoples lives. Peoples actions or opinions don't change the truth of Scripture. I am interested in what the pure Scriptures have to say concerning the "baptism of the Holy Spirit". If we feel that the evidence is something other then what was written in Scripture we run into danger. I have heard people say the evidence is holiness and that may be, but one has to come to terms with how the writer of Acts described the outpouring of the Spirit and the emphasis in Scripture on speaking in tonges.

Acts 2:4 (King James Version)
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10:44-46 (King James Version)
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Acts 19:6 (King James Version)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Just because someone may not have the true gift of tongues or prophecy it does not mean that it's not the evidence.

Blessings!

 2007/4/11 17:06
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Tongues as Evidence?

Quote:
What do you think of the statement by some believers that speaking in tongues is definite evidence of the "Baptism" or "Filling" of the Holy Spirit?


It only take a quick read through of Acts to notice a pattern to this experience. Where the believers were baptised into (in, by etc...),,,filled....there was always a corresponding outward sign of speaking in an unknown tongue. Now all you teachers out there can try as you will to explain it away, rationalize it away, deny it, site other religions or cults, but the pattern God gave in HIS WORD FOR HIS CHURCH is set forth in the Book Of Acts and is easily understood and plainly seen from start to finish, which by the way spans a long time period.


_________________
D.Miller

 2007/4/11 21:00Profile
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

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I agree with everything Corey said, and believe me folks... I've seen it all. Used to be right in the middle of it.

Do I believe tongues exists today? Yes, but I believe 90% of what we see in the church is not real. I dont believe it's demonic, mind you. I just believe it's contrived... sometimes knowingly, sometimes not.



This has been a great victory for satan. Unstable emotionalism and frauds have given God's power a lot of bad press.

As a result the unsaved find it hard to believe that God has any real power and believers coil back into a defensive position where they shun the very gifts God designed for them and urges them to seek.

PassingThru

 2007/4/11 21:36Profile









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As a result the unsaved find it hard to believe that God has any real power and believers coil back into a defensive position where they shun the very gifts God designed for them and urges them to seek.



God has power. And He's answered many of my prayers - and done wonderous things I didn't pray for.

But I don't find Jesus "urging" believers to "seek gifts"... He commands us TO OBEY HIM. If signs and wonders follow, great. But asking for "signs and wonders" for their own sake is akin to the proofs the Pharasees demanded of Jesus.

"Blessed are those who haven't seen and yet believe."

 2007/4/12 0:51
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

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But I don't find Jesus "urging" believers to "seek gifts"



"Urging" may be too strong a word, but Corinthians 1:12-14 makes it clear that the gifts are God's purpose for his church and that he does instruct us to seek them.

[color=000099]
1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
...
1Co 12:31 [b]But covet earnestly the best gifts[/b]: and yet show I unto you a more excellent, way.
...
1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, [b]and desire spiritual gifts[/b], but rather that ye may prophesy.
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1Co 14:5 [b]I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied[/b]: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh, with tongues, except, he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
...
1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, [b]covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.[/b]
1Co 14:40[/color][color=CC0000] Let all things be done decently and in order.[/color]

What I am pointing out is that misuse has kept many Christians from seeking the gifts as the Bible instructs and also many non-believers from believing.

PassingThru

 2007/4/12 5:58Profile
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

Quote:
But asking for "signs and wonders" for their own sake is akin to the proofs the Pharasees demanded of Jesus.



In contrast, rejecting the gifts God has designed for us and instructs us to covet/desire is equally rebellious.

[color=000099]
Isa 7:11 Ask thee a sign of, the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
Isa 7:12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.
Isa 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
[/color]

Note that Ahaz's refusal appears to be scriptural, but it is in fact disbelief and rebellion, similar to the Pharisees' request a sign.

The issue is why we seek the gifts, and how do we handle them once we have them.

PassingThru

 2007/4/12 6:39Profile









 Re:

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there was always a corresponding outward sign of speaking in an unknown tongue.



This is not true... go back and read every account again.

Krispy

 2007/4/12 7:43





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