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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Are we born into sin?

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PosterThread
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
elected wrote:
Quote:
If we are born with "original sin" then we have a sin nature and we are predamned.



We are predestined before the foundation of the world but nowhere it says in the bible that God predamned the rest of mankind(that were not chosen

If they were not chosen, they can not be saved, they must go to hell by a predetermination.

However, Predestination is not the topic.

 2007/4/15 15:11Profile
elected
Member



Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:


1. We were born in original sin
2. We were born with a good nature
3. We were born with a weak nature

If someone finds any support from scriptures for point 2 & 3 i'll change my view about 'original sin', if not i'll stick to the first idea.

If we are born with a good nature then the good in us should have a divine origine and the source of it's goodness should be God if so according to this logic our nature becomes evil only when we sin by choice at the age of accountability when children know good from evil.

Is our "innate goodness" when we are born untouched by original sin? What is meant by original sin in itself? Is it an doctrine taught by the scriptures or just an invention of the early church fathers who came up with this new briliant idea? Is it a myth or a truth?

I for myself believe that all goodness comes from God and apart from him everything is not just weak but bad and evil.






_________________
Redi

 2007/4/15 16:17Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

elected wrote:

1. We were born in original sin
2. We were born with a good nature
3. We were born with a weak nature

If someone finds any support from scriptures for point 2 & 3 i'll change my view about 'original sin', if not i'll stick to the first idea.


[b]2. We were born with a good nature[/b]
[b]Rom 7:18b[/b] [color=990000]...For even though the [b]desire to do good is in me[/b]...[/color]
[b]Rom 7:19[/b] [color=990000]...the good I want to do...[/color]
If one wants to do good, one would have a good nature.
How ever,
[b]Rom 7:20[/b] [color=990000]If I do what I don't want to do, this means that [b]I am no longer the one who does it[/b];[/color]
I is not him(his nature)
It is the death that Paul concluded it to be. in Romans 7:

What is the law of sin that is in our members that (Rom 7:23) tells about?
it is death;
Eze 18:4b [color=990000]the soul that sinneth, it shall die.[/color]
Eze 18:20 [color=990000]The soul that sinneth, it shall die[/color]
Jer 31:30 [color=990000]But every one shall die for his own iniquity:[/color]
&
Deu 24:16, 2Ch 25:4
Rom 6:23 [color=990000]For the wages of sin is death;[/color]
Rom 7:23-24 [color=990000]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?[/color]
This is why Paul calls it the law of sin and death in Romans 8:2

Furthermore, how does God condemn someone for haveing a nature that one did not choose?

Thought we have this death that reigns in our flesh because of sin, we may have no condemnation of death when we don't walk according to the flesh, but after the Spirit because we are in Christ Jesus.

[b]3. We were born with a weak nature[/b]
[b]1Co 15:43b[/b] [color=990000]...it is sown in [b]weakness[/b] it is raised in power:[/color]

This weakness is why Paul is unable to do the good that He tells about in Romans 7.

 2007/4/15 19:05Profile





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