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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Are we born into sin?

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JaySaved
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Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Well put Blake.

 2007/4/5 20:29Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Romans 5 tells us that we were born "in" Adam, and as a result of such, inherited his spiritual death. And as a result of Adam's sin, condemnation resulted to all men. However, because of Christ's obedience, righteousness and spiritual life has now been inherited for those who are now "in" Christ.

If one were to deny the doctrine of original sin as set forth in this passage, then one must also deny the effective work of Christ to make us righteous and give us Divine life in this same passage. For Paul argues that death is for those who are in Adam, but life is for those who are in Christ. And as one is born into the first man, so one must be born into the second Man.

And this is where Charles Finney's theology falls apart.


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Jimmy H

 2007/4/5 23:22Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Blake wrote:

Quote:
I pray that you might understand this truth. Many people are held in bondage because they do not know Christ as the source of their being.



Why do you suppose they remain in bondage?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/4/6 1:32Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister Stela wrote:

Quote:
According to the Hebrew dictionary, “image” means “phantom.” Or one could say, “spirit,” 3 which would mean that man was a spiritual being. Although he was flesh and blood, he was capable of communicating with his Creator. There was no consciousness of man’s humanity because, as the Word says, Adam and Eve were naked (nude) and “were not ashamed.” 4 There was nothing to separate man from his Creator. They could walk and talk in pure communion, Spirit to spirit.



Quote:
If simple disobedience was the problem, the tree with the forbidden fruit could have been a cherry tree or a fig tree. But no, it was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The fruit of the tree caused the problem: not merely the eating of it. Yes, man ate the fruit in disobedience, but the fruit itself provided the source of trouble for all mankind from that moment on. Man’s heredity was now to be born a mere man of flesh, both literally as well as figuratively.



God is birthing a good work through you sis....

Thank you for sharing

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/4/6 1:58Profile
saltlicker20
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Joined: 2005/11/11
Posts: 57
Grand Saline, TX

 Re: Are we born into sin?

So if/since we're born in to sin, this would mean that we are born separated from God. If/Since this is the case, what happens to newborns and babies when they die?

The other theory is that we are born into a sin weakness and then choose to rebel against God.

Here is a link to one of the articles by Otis Jr.: http://www.sam-xa.com/leaders/1-Essentials/07-Sin_Holiness/2-Sin%20reading%20material.doc (it is opened with Microsoft Word or another word processer)



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DO

 2007/4/6 14:01Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

It should be noted that while we are born in a fallen sinful state, though we are born with a naturally rebellious nature, no actual guilt is charged to our account until we are old enough to know right from wrong. Thus, children go to heaven.


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Jimmy H

 2007/4/6 15:55Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
KingJimmy wrote:
]Romans 5 tells us that we were born "in" Adam, and as a result of such, inherited his spiritual death.


We did'nt inherit his spiritual death.
We inherited his phisical death writen about in Romans 8:20-21

Quote:
And as a result of Adam's sin, condemnation resulted to all men. However, because of Christ's obedience, righteousness and spiritual life has now been inherited for those who are now "in" Christ.



[b]Romans 5:19[/b] [color=990000]For as through the one man's disobedience, the many were made sinners[/color],[in like manner of disobedience] [color=990000]so also through the obedience of the One the many shall be made righteous.[/color]],[in like manner of obedience]

It must be this way because if you don't think of it this way, than the only other way to read it is:
We are made sinners involantary through the one man's disobedience, so also many shall be made righteous involantarily through the obedience of the One.

Therefore, one is not a sinner until the first accountable sin.
Inturn, no "sin sature" or "original sin" to be called a sinner.

Quote:
KingJimmy wrote:
If one were to deny the doctrine of original sin as set forth in this passage, then one must also deny the effective work of Christ to make us righteous and give us Divine life in this same passage.


How is it that denying the doctrine of original sin is also denying the effective work of Christ?

Quote:
KingJimmy wrote:
And as one is born into the first man, so one must be born into the second Man.


Yes, as one is born into the first man which is of dieing flesh, so one must be born into the second Man a life giveing spirit.(1Corinth 15:44-45)
If your goung to use being "in Adam" as a reference, you must know that Adam is not refered to as sinfu, but in weakness, a natural body, a living soul, earthy.

[b]1Corinth 15:50[/b]
Quote:
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


[b]Romans 8:21[/b] [color=990000]Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.[/color]

 2007/4/6 19:29Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Jeff wrote:

Quote;
"Why do you suppose they remain in bondage?"

The won't hear the truth of Christ being born again in them to set them free.

Jhn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jhn 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:2-6 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


Free in Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/4/6 20:29Profile
vico
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Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 258


 Re: Are we born into sin?

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Another point: With out the law, there is no sin, for sin is the transgressing the law.

Romans 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Romans 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

When was this point where Paul was without the law???
Like somebody already mentioned, very young children have no concept of good and evil. The commandment has not yet come to them. Therefore there is no sin, because sin is the transgession of the law. 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The commandment has not come, sin is dead without the commandment = no sin = babies are sinless, pure, and innocent.

:-)

and just in case someone was thinking it... NO, babies do not go to hell!!!
But, if they were sinners, God would have to send them to hell. If there is knowledge of the evil, there is knowledge of the good, and therefore the knowledge to know to do better = they have the law. but i don't find this to match up with scripture.

if you feel that i have in any way twisted scripture, taken it out of context, or leaned on my own understanding in the interpretation, please comment back and let me know where i'm wrong. I desire truth, and this is truth as i know him.

least of all,
~victor

 2007/4/6 23:05Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Why do you suppose they remain in bondage?



Because they do not understand the true nature of what it means to believe in Jesus.

In love,
Blake




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Blake Kidney

 2007/4/6 23:36Profile





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