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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Tithe - A shadow of things to come...

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jimdied2sin wrote:
the more you give the more he keeps giving back Amen.


I know that this may not sound Theological but it needed to be said

You are right that it's not theological but I dont think it needed to be said.

Jim, I'm not sure that's what was meant. Don't jump down someone's throat before you are sure you understand what they're trying to say!



 2007/3/27 14:35


here is a balance with truth and love. don't give love without the truth, don't give truth without love.

Good word brother, I have felt the need to watch that more on my internet psots because I can come across harshly. Thanks for calling me out on it, I will watch it more closely.

in Christ - Jim

 2007/3/27 14:35


How so littleGift... please see my last post too.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/3/27 14:36

 Re: The Tithe - A shadow of things to come...

Stampe, that was beautiful meditation, straight from God's heart theough ours to us!


 2007/3/27 14:36

 Re: The Tithe - A shadow of things to come...

I decided not to go deeper and put it aside for a while, thinking that this was a matter to high for me...

Brother I hear ya, I've done this myself.

When I read Malachi 3 in this context, I understand, that when God's people fail to care for the poor and needy even in their midst, they are indeed robbing God. Oh, but for how long are we going to rob God, by robbing poor widows on welfare, by telling them that unless they bring 10 percent of their income to the church they are cursed of God? My dear brethren, the food was supposed to be for the widows and for the poor among us!

I dropped my head in shame when I read this. I've seen this, and I have contended with men of God who were doing this. This word that you have shared my Brother speaks volumes and should be sent to every Church as a witness that what they are teaching on tithing is not right.

I am blown away by this because I was seeking the LORD regarding this very thing. I posted in a thread a couple of days ago saying that I was going to look into this tithing business, because there is more that is being said here than what men are saying about it.

Thank you Jesus, for providing the answers. This kind of word makes me want to give even more.

 2007/3/27 16:19


Jeanette said:

Um, no... I dare not use God as a cosmic banker.

I agree!!

 2007/3/27 16:25

Joined: 2007/3/20
Posts: 12


Dear Jeanette and Compliments,

Thank you for your replies. I am deeply humbled by what you wrote. It also brought a great deal of joy and consolation to me, that God is speaking this word to many more brethren out there.

Please pray for me, because this revelation is not at all popular in the church I am attending, but I believe it is a word that needs to be heard.

I am also looking forward to hear whatever the Lord will lay on your hearts concerning this matter.



Carsten Stampe Jorgensen

 2007/3/27 18:13Profile

Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: The Widow's Mite


Intens4Him wrote:
I think you would be interested in listening to [url=]Gladys Alyward[/url], specifically her 1st testimony. (If you listen to it, turn all the bass off, it's kinda hard to hear since it's from the early 60's.)

I've paid tithes since I was saved and began sort of praying about not paying tithes, not because I didn't believe in it but because the church I was attending was only paying bills (no one was getting help). I started praying and then by the Spirit I came upon this site and her testimony.

She speaks (from her Chinese Bible) in Malachi 3.10, about bringing to the storehouse our "completed tithe." What interested me most by her testimony was that she said our completed tithe is not money but ourselves.

PS: This is all new to me, if you could explain the widows two mites, I'd love to read about what Jesus said.

Thank you!

[b]I admire Gladys Aylward for her work in China, but teaching that the tithe is bringing yourself is not scriptural. However, since the Chinese were so poor, perhaps she meant giving of your time and help to others instead of money would be acceptable to God. After all, that was what she did herself, and her ministry was blessed.

Back to Malichi:[/b]

[color=993300][b]Malachi 3

1. Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.[/color][/b]

[b]This is a reference to Christ's first coming.[/b]

[color=993300] 2. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3. And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
4. Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
5. And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the Lord of hosts.
6. For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7. Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
[b]8. Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.[/color][/b]

[b]This is the blessing of the tithe, and also a test you are permitted to test God with.

But the blessings are rarely monetary. Most of them are spiritual, then practical, physical, or circumstantial, as relates to family and self, and then, if you receive these blessings well, and steward well what money God does give you, God will also bless the work of your hands.[/b]

[color=993300][b] 12. And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts.[/color][/b]

[b]America, when She was Christian as a nation, and tithing was not used to glorify the churches, or the Pastors, we were the envy of the world. Now only 5 - 8% tithe and give offerings that are more than a token.

Christianity is heading toward being persecuted in the land it built, and we are hated worldwide. Pity we don't go back to tithing, and small churches, that we might actually support, but not enrich the Pastors, and then do good with the rest.[/b]

[color=993300]13. Your words have been stout against me, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee?
[b] 14. Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the Lord of hosts?[/color][/b]

[b]If you don't give with a gladsome heart, because you are obeying God, and enjoying obeying God, why tithe? God would actually prefer you didn't moan over and mourn over the loss of your 10%.[/b]

[color=993300] 15. And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
[b] 16. Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
17. And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.[/color][/b]

[b]This is how God views we Christians, as sons, and yet we are gravely disobedient, to not speak well of God's desires, and to fail in obeying the laws that apply to us, under grace.[/b]

[color=993300][b] 18. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

[b]When will we learn? Cain complained over the sacrifice, but Abel did not. Cain was angry that his few sheaves of corn or wheat were not satisfactory to God, so much so that he killed Abel for happily giving something of more value.

The quarrel with God over whether to give and how much to give started all the way back then.

Then Abraham, into whom Christians are grafted into, to receive the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, are still moaning and mourning over simple obedience.

Is it not the same tithes and offerings we complain of now?

Do we give to the churches? Yes, if they need it.

If they do not, give to the poor, the hungry, the thirsty, the sick, the imprisoned, and to missionaries and evangelists that you may have a part in their soul winning.

But please, give in gladness, or not at all, and stop moaning over what can be great blessings to us.


[color=993300]EDIT: Mark 12:38. And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
39. And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
40. Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
41. And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
42. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
43. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
44. For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living. END EDIT[/color][/b]

Now, as to the Widow's Mite, and why Jesus was so impressed, was that her tiny amount of money was her tithe and offerings. And she had so little, that there was only enough for the tithe and offerings, and nothing for herself.

All the others gave out of their plenty, knowing that after paying the tithes and offerings, they would be able to eat, buy clothing, pay for teaching at the Yeshiva (It wasn't free then either), and save up for their daughter's dowry.

It is the epitome of sacrificial giving.

Have I put it to the test? Yes. I went a year without paying my mortgage, but paid my tithe.

I was afraid. I prayed to keep my small house. The Holy Spirit gave me songs to sing about trusting in God.

I sang them constantly.

At the end of the year, though I had no proof of income, and no actual ability to pay the mortgage, the V.A gave me a signature loan for all that I owed them.

Then God arranged for my mortgage to be paid by a family member, and raised that person's income the full amount of the mortgage he paid for me.

You know, until just now, writing this down, I hadn't even realized that I was that Widow, and that I had given my mites. And God honored His promise, Praise be unto Him!

In Christ,

Forrest Anderson

Forrest Anderson

 2007/3/31 3:29Profile


I don't do well saying the exact thing I need to say when I'm standing in front of someone and these discussion lists only compound my frustration!!! LOL I didn't say in my first post that I most certainly DO "believe" in bringing my tithes into the storehouse but what I'm having trouble with is giving to an organization that does not help anyone but themselves. That being said, I'll move on.

I liked what the Lord showed Stampe - 2007/3/27 9:45

that when God's people fail to care for the poor and needy even in their midst, they are indeed robbing God.

And ironically, it's the so-called churches perpetuating the robbing of God.

Because it seems that when the average Christian hands in that tithe envelope every Sunday, the unwritten assumption is that their responsibility is finished. Therefore, the homeless, the fatherless households, the widow, the orphans - the needy get stepped over and left behind. The church is a hard taskmaster, not only do they demand our tithes and offerings but they demand our time (as much as they can get). I will not pay tithes to a church just so they can make a building payment when there is so much need out there going unmet.

A.W. Tozer said back in the early 60's that the ENTIRE church body should shut down and take six weeks off and seek God for what He wanted. I thought, "Boy, he should see them now."

UniqueWebRev - 2007/3/31 1:45:
And since I belong to no church, but have a small house church, I give all of my Tithe and Offerings to the poor, sick, hungry, imprisoned, thirsty, homeless, and to Israel's Orphans.

And since my church is my house and the internet site cost minimal, as is the site, I carry the cost, and ask for nothing from others.

I do not pay tithe to a church but I do look for people to help. And if I don't find anyone that week, I'm getting into the habit where I put the tithe into some type of account - NOT for myself - but for when I come upon someone in need, the funds will be there and I can help. I'm not trying to build it up by any means but I know it has to be somewhere where I won't spend it on myself. (And Jesus said about the talents, "Why didn't you at least put it somewhere to get usury?")

I don't have this written in stone but I felt led to do the following when I watched my cousin go to another Christian relative (who has abundance from several fast food restaurants) and ask for money for help with her son and she was turned her away empty handed. I was so hurt for her and also that I couldn't help her. For now, until the Lord shows me differently, this is what I'll be doing.

I believe that Gladys Aylward was onto something/shed light on a subject that needs it - to bring in our completed tithe. Is it 100% percent of the answer? No. Only the Lord knows what the completed tithe is for each one of us. Someone (on one of these tithing discussions) said the the OT requirement was 10% and the NT requirement is 100%. Whatever it is, we cannot keep building bigger churches and leaving behind the needy, in the name of God. Well, that's my two cents anyway.

I don't know what the answer is except to stay close by Jesus' side and let the Holy Spirit guide.


 2007/3/31 8:41

Joined: 2007/3/31
Posts: 3


For what it's worth, here are my two mites on Malachi, because the miss-use of Mal 3:10 concerns me. First let me say that the book of Malachi, espeically 3:10, had everything to do with the people who were not giving the whole tithe and unblemished offerings, and nothing to do with those that were. To prove this we have to go back to the book of Haggai, where we find that in prosperity they were not giving the whole tithe. The House Of God had fallen into disarray.
Hag 1:5 Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts: Consider your ways,
Hag 1:6 Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.
Hag 1:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts: Consider your ways.
Hag 1:8 Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the LORD.
Hag 1:9 Ye looked for much, and, lo, it came to little; and when ye brought it home, I did blow upon it. Why? saith the LORD of hosts. Because of mine house that lieth waste, while ye run every man to his own house.
Hag 1:10 Therefore for your sake the heaven is stayed from dew, and the earth is stayed from her fruit.
Hag 1:11 And I called for a drought upon the land, and upon the mountains, and upon the corn, and upon the wine, and upon the oil, and upon that which the ground bringeth forth, and upon men, and upon cattle, and upon all the labour of the hands.
So now we see that drought was brought on the land because of their failure to give the full tithe and pure offerings. Not only that, the priests were offering polluted bread and blemished sin offerings. And, again we see that this time, in their lack, they were not giving the whole tithe.
Hag 2:11 Thus saith the LORD of hosts: Ask now the priests concerning the law, saying,
Hag 2:12 If one bear holy flesh in the skirt of his garment, and with his skirt do touch bread, or pottage, or wine, or oil, or any meat, shall it become holy? And the priests answered and said, No.
Hag 2:13 Then said Haggai, If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean.
Hag 2:14 Then answered Haggai and said, So is this people, and so is this nation before me, saith the LORD; and so is every work of their hands; and that which they offer there is unclean.
Hag 2:15 And now, I pray you, consider from this day and upward, from before a stone was laid upon a stone in the temple of the LORD:
Hag 2:16 Through all that time, when one came to an heap of twenty, there were but ten; when one came to the winefat for to draw out fifty vessels, there were but twenty.
Mal 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?
Mal 1:7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar. And ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible.
Mal 1:8 And when ye offer the blind for sacrifice, it is no evil! and when ye offer the lame and sick, it is no evil! Present it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee? or will he accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts.
So now we see in Mal 3, that when they bring the entire tithe and pure offering to the temple, Father will restore the rain from heaven to increase their crops, flocks, and herds.
Mal 3:6 For I the LORD change not; therefore ye, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
Mal 3:7 From the days of your fathers ye have turned aside from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye say, Wherein shall we return?
Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? yet ye rob me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with the curse; for ye rob me, even this whole nation.
Mal 3:10 Bring ye the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Mal 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:12 And all nations shall call you happy: for ye shall he a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.
The way Mal 3:10 is used today to raise funds is, in my mind, unapropriate. Personally, my giving of a tenth follows the guidelines laid down in Isaiah 58: 6-7
May God smile when He thinks of you. :-)

 2007/3/31 10:03Profile

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