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 Re:

Quote:
I was able to spend 3 1/2 hours last night with a small group leader from kensington who emailed us about the incident. He was cut to the heart over what the Lord spoke through me to him. He is meeting with a large group of people today from kensington to explain whats going on and hopefully have them examine themselves because they are a lukewarm group in general.

Glory be to God for any fruit that comes through this.



Praise God! Let's all be praying!

 2007/3/26 12:48
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

jimdied2sin,

Praise the Lord! I will definitely make sure to pray for you and your time with the small group leader from Kensington.

Megachurches are not inherently bad... just like a cruise ship is not inherently bad, when it's on course everyone on board is on course... but if it strays from the narrow path than it takes many more with it than a smaller churches -but we shouldn't decieve ourselves, there are thousands and thousands of small churches that are in error also, and if you add up their membership they would rival any mega-church.

In this way a mega-church can even be a blessing, because if the true Gospel is preached (and it is at some mega-churches) then thousands of believers can be equipped and given a the same vision -not that God needs our numbers.

With this specific church there has been a challenge to get on course, we need to pray that the Spirit intervenes and sets these believers back in line with His Word, on the narrow path.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/3/26 12:50Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Praise the Lord! I will definitely make sure to pray for you and your time with the small group leader from Kensington.



But don't you see brother...if this would have been up to you none of this would have ever happened. Some of the people would still be coasting on in their false hope lukewarm state.

 2007/3/26 12:54









 Re:

Paul was clearly talking about motives when he said to rejoice that the [b]gospel[/b] was being preached. For instance, some preachers preach the gospel for what the Bible calls "filthy lucre", or money. Thats their motive. Paul basically says "who cares if money is their motive? Truth is truth, and God's Word does not come back void."

However, Paul speaks very [b]strongly[/b], and in no uncertain terms, against those who preach another Christ. He said if another man, or even if an angel appears preaching another Christ, we are to [b]reject[/b] them. Paul said very clearly that we are to [b]mark and avoid[/b] those who cause divisions by preaching unscriptual doctrines.

A proper understand and perspective on scripture goes a long ways in clearing up these misunderstandings. Scripture is very clear on this issue.

We can not be "live and let live" when it comes to false doctrines, because it will lead to death for many. I do not rejoice that the JW's are preaching their gospel, nor should I rejoice about some "church" not preaching the truth of the gospel, even if they call themselves Christians. The Mormons call themselves Christians. Calling yourself a Christian doesnt make you a Christian any more than calling yourself a hamburger makes you a hamburger.

Krispy

 2007/3/26 13:02
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: church rebuked

I think someone had posted a link to these films a few week ago. The description from the article...

"During the service, a video was played that portrayed a very blasphemous image of Christ driving out the moneychangers from the Temple as a satirical joke. It seemed to be a very old film out of which the sound was removed and voice-over effects were place on it. As “Jesus” in the film was flipping over tables in a humorous way, they had his voice saying terrible things like “Sinners”, and “You’re going to hell!” in a very mocking way to make it all a big jest.

I'm glad these people protested this film. Even though Jesus' name was mentioned, this videos malignment of the scriptural account of Jesus cleansing he temple and the lack of respect shown for the savior is a huge step in the wrong direction. Even many unbelievers start out knowing better then to snicker and giggle about God.

If the church you attend ever resorts to such vulgar pandering to the crowd, defecting from Her first Love to win the chuckles of carnal people...I might suggest a different strategy then protesting. You might calmly stand up, quietly walk out of the sanctuary, and make your way down the hall to the breaker box for the building where you would cut the power to the sanctuary. Besides peacefully ending the unhealthy defacement of God's Word, the sudden darkness would serve as a useful metaphor for the spiritual condition of that place.

MC


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Mike Compton

 2007/3/26 13:32Profile
murdog
Member



Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario

 Re:

Saints,

When the Laodicean church is being rebuked by the spirit for it's lukewarm condition; Jesus doesn't say to them "run for your lives", instead he tells them to "buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of the nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous therefore, and repent.

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if ANY man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

Notice how Christ couples his righteous indignation with longsuffering and gentleness.

In verse 16 he is ready to spew the lukewarm out of his mouth and then in verse 20 he is willing to sup with them who repent.

Murray


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Murray Beninger

 2007/3/26 14:00Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Well I think the heart of this is a difference in view on our parts -what you see as them worshiping a different Jesus, implies that they have no relationship with the real Jesus. Whereas I would extend them the benefit that they are in a state of immaturity and spiritual ignorance. I don't think it's one or the other, I think it's probably a mix of both. We need to be careful to tell believers they're not saved, and we also need to be careful not to say to unbelievers to grow up. Unbelievers need to be saved and believers need to grow up.

When we go around saying, 'well they're not worshipping the real Jesus,' you might as well go around chopping people up! Paul had a chopping ministry, Barnabus had a healing ministry -the church needs them both!

Among my local church I'm known for being, 'serious.' There are others among my congregation who stay away from me because I confront the way that they're living their lives... I could get the wrong notion that these people are lost, or I could just realize that they're immature. I'm immature too... my answer before was to confront them and show them their speck, but it turned out most of the time I was walking around with a plank in my eye. Even though my motives were right, and my observation was correct, my actions were completely wrong.

I acted like a Paul, but God wants me to be a Barnabus! It may be different for you.

The video in question was probably the one released by Vintage21, a Acts 29 member church (a church planting ministry of Mars Hill church in Seattle).

Mars Hill, although they are a mega-church, preaches an unflinching Gospel, with a correct biblical Jesus. Vintage 21, related through it's ministry to Mars Hill released those horrible videos... and obviously someone made a mistake of playing them at Kensington.

If we were to look at it without discernment we would blanket all three of these churches with condemnation... but that would be error. We need to realize that there are unbelievers and believers in these congregations. Mature and immature. We have been given a view to see their mote, but we also have to be careful how we approach them because we could have a plank in our own eye of unlove or condemnation.

That is why prayer is so important, and why I quoted Leonard's quote on gossip. Although seemingly unrelated I think it is directly applicable... if we're praying our motives will be purified. Leonard Ravenhill said that prayer was a great detergent! Prayer cleanses us not only of our sin, but helps us to see the beam in our eyes and seek repentence before we seek to admonish anyone else. Prayer will also prepare us to confront others with their sin, because we will have their best in mind.

My greatest fear is that someone will say all the right things to a church in admonishment but be doing it for all the wrong reasons. Leonard Ravenhill rebuked the church but he wanted to see revival, he wanted to see Jesus glorified. We can so easily emulate him and his rebuking of others but for our own glory, for our own pride, to prove that we are a macho christian and our view of Jesus is best... that is what I have seen in myself and what I have to repent of.


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Ian Smith

 2007/3/26 14:04Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
In verse 16 he is ready to spew the lukewarm out of his mouth and then in verse 20 he is willing to sup with them who repent.



Good word Murdog.

Thanks,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/3/26 14:06Profile









 Re:

Quote:
In verse 16 he is ready to spew the lukewarm out of his mouth and then in verse 20 he is willing to sup with them who repent.




Jeremiah 51: (also see Babylon in Revelation)
39 But while they are aroused,
I will set out a feast for them
and make them drunk,
so that they shout with laughter—
then sleep forever and not awake,"
declares the LORD.

40 "I will bring them down
like lambs to the slaughter,
like rams and goats.

41 "How Sheshach [g] will be captured,
the boast of the whole earth seized!
What a horror Babylon will be
among the nations!

42 The sea will rise over Babylon;
its roaring waves will cover her.

43 Her towns will be desolate,
a dry and desert land,
a land where no one lives,
through which no man travels.

44 I will punish Bel in Babylon
and make him spew out what he has swallowed.
The nations will no longer stream to him.
And the wall of Babylon will fall.

45 "Come out of her, my people!
Run for your lives!
Run from the fierce anger of the LORD.

46 Do not lose heart or be afraid
when rumors are heard in the land;
one rumor comes this year, another the next,
rumors of violence in the land
and of ruler against ruler.

47 For the time will surely come
when I will punish the idols of Babylon;
her whole land will be disgraced
and her slain will all lie fallen within her.

 2007/3/26 14:15
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 a REAL church rebuke

Either Give Us A Revival–Or A Funeral

Did you know that in the lifetime of the average American they will be presented the Gospel hundreds of times, and often take for granted the treasure they're being offered.

There are hundreds of millions of people in some of the most horrible physical conditions in the world who are crying out for a relationship with God, but they aren't being answered because we're still here, in America.

Revival and Missions go hand in hand. Do we want to raise up a generation for the Lord? What do we raise them up for? To storm the gates, to save the lost... or to fill the pews of our local church. Are we raising up prayer warriors and frontier missionaries or are we more concerned with making converts that tithe faithfully.

There is revival in the world right now, I can name multiple countries that are currently experiencing revival around the world... but none of them speak English. America is still digging it's grave.

What we need is mature believers, what we need are missionaries and prayer warriors! You want to rebuke a church... find out how many of their congregation has ever considered missions. Find out how much time their average member spends a day in prayer. Even among our 'best' churches we might still find that compared with the biblical and historical examples of our faith we fall so short!

The Moravians used to go to the mission field expecting to die -this was more than symbolic, it was a regular practice for them to pack all their belongings for the trip in a coffin.

The Moravians knew about prayer, they experienced revival and a move of the Spirit that maybe no other church since has come close to... and what did they do? They went out! They didn't just stay in their quaint little German hamlet, they went to the ends of the earth with the Gospel as the first protestant missionary movement. Their lives were planted on the mission field, their sacrifices were a pleasing aroma to the Lord.

In comparison, American Christianity even at some of our 'best' churches is still a stench to the Lord. Instead of seeing ourselves in the view of our fathers of Faith, or comparing ourselves with the Gospel accounts of the early church we compare ourselves with the churches around us, and we look pretty good! But we're a stench to Him in our smugness! Here we are throwing mud at eachother argueing over who has the true Gospel -if we were visited by Paul Washer's peruvian congregation they may say that neither of us has the Gospel.

There is more persecution among believers today than at any other time in history... maybe not in America, but there are people dying for the sake of the Gospel all around the world. Yet even the 'best' American Christians would rather debate about KJV vs. NIV, or Jesus' portrayal in films in some church in Detroit than get down on their knees and pray for a world dying without Jesus. Remember, Sodom Had No bible... and most Americans have heard the Gospel hundreds of times and there are bibles in every hotel room that prostitution occurs. We, the church of America are going to be responsible for this generation at the judgement.

'This generation of believers is responsible for this generation of souls around the world.' -Keith Green.


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Ian Smith

 2007/3/26 14:30Profile





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