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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Where do revivalists land? Reformed or Armenian?

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intrcssr83
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 246
Logan City, Queensland, Australia

 Check out this sermon!

Just thought I'd recommend this sermon by C.J. Mahaney, leader of Sovereign Grace Ministries (they're Reformed-Charismatic) where he exposits from Ephesians 1 and explains the need to be always mindful of your "first impressions" regardless of whether you are inclined to Arminianism, Calvinism or in-between:

[url=http://www.covlife.org/sermons/dl_dialog.php?filename=../audio/2005_10_09.mp3]C.J. Mahaney - Ephesians 1: "Sovereign Grace" (mp3) [/url]

Just a quick question: though Wesley and Whitefield had their differences, surely Methodism must have started with a common ground. What caused the split?


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Benjamin Valentine

 2007/3/22 23:39Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re: Check out this sermon!

Quote:
What caused the split?



Whitefield viewed Arminianism as contrary to Scripture.

I have been wondering as this thread has started what people will say about Rick Warren or the Emerging Church in years to come. What I mean is that in our day, we understand that for the most part, both of these groups have departed from Historical Christianity. We of course in love defend the "faith once delivered", and people are quick to say, "but look at how many people are going, look at the impact being made."

Thus they justify the departure from previously held Doctrine for what works.

Now if you go back in history when one Charles G. Finney was around, this was the sentiment about him. He had departed from previously long held Doctrines that had to do with issues such as the Atonement, justfication, and salvation. Those who warned the Church about him then in his day received much the same answer we receive today, "but look at all the people going, look at how well it works"

The concern I have is that much of Finney's teachings leave people trusting in works to be justified rather than the substituitonary atonement of Christ, thus making man the justifier of himself. Too many brethren are beaten down and downcast from these types of teachings as they can never measure up so they feel un-justified, but man is not justified by works, but by faith.

I'm sure there will be many rebuttals to this, but honestly evalutate Finney's teachings with that of the Scriptures, and the Historical Interpretation and see how they stand.

We do need revival, but even as the name suggests, it is bringing dead men to life, and that is something only God Himself can do.


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patrick heaviside

 2007/3/23 0:05Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
Canada

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
I'm a Reformed Armenian!


That might not be too far from the truth for myself!

Quote:
Our problem is nonexperimental truth that fills our brains, we know much about revivals, have such a great knowledge "about" God but unfortunatly our experience of Him is very shallow. Deep calls unto deep.

Where are the hearts burdened with the burden of the Lord.Every awakening or revival was preceded by a spirit of grace and supplication.

We need Spirit born holy desires.We need power from on high, we cant fight the devil with "carnal weapons", we cant hurt his kingdom with the "letters of scriptures" but with the word or words of God.

Revival has a "prize" to pay, it will be costly, we want the fruits of it but non of it's spiritual pains and burdens, we want its confort but non of it's persecution. The early methodists were all open air preachers they knew very well what it meant to be reviled, beaten, persecuted,in perils of their life,with apostolic zeal they advanced the kingdom of God.

May God wake us up and shake us to realize that it is His honor and glory in cause and may he open the eyes of our hearts and understanding that we can see the Reality, may his light cast out the darkness in us.


Very true dear brother, I readily appreciate your comments.

[b]Our problem is nonexperimental truth that fills our brains[/b] - This really stuck out to me! how true this is. You would not "come to me to have life!" Oh the lack of divine life amongst much carnal conjecture and doctrines of scripture.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2007/3/23 2:06Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Where do revivalists land? Reformed or Armenian?

Quote:
Maybe this discussion has already been discussed but where to many revivalist preachers land theologically between the spectrum of the Reformation and Armenian camp?


this question might be rephrased "where do they start" rather than where do they 'land'.

Revival seems to be indifferent to preconceptions. The English 18th century revival whose best known preachers were Whitefield - the Calvinist and John Wesley - 'Armenian' show this pretty plainly.

The Hebrides revival was mostly among Calvinist peoples, as far as I can tell, but the channel of the revival Duncan Campbell preached 'second blessing holiness' which is usually frowned on by Calvinists.

I don't think classical revival (and I use that phrase to distinguish it from anything billed as 'Revivaltime at the Gospel Tent') really alters basic theology. However, Calvinism has often tended towards post Millennialism and such Calvinists absolutely depend upon 'classical revivals' to fulfil their eschatology.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/3/23 4:59Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

God can use anyone to start a great revival. This should be a great encouragement to all of us. My prayer is that my faith grows like that of Abraham's.

Romans 4:18-21, "Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform."

How I wish that I and others would not stagger at the promise of God, but be fully persuaded that God will perform what He has promised.
Also, thank you roaringlamb for that historical information earlier in this thread.

 2007/3/23 10:12Profile





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