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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2772
Phoenix, Arizona USA


Democracy only works when the people deliberately choose God as their ruler and submit themselves and their rights to Him. As God's government is set up over people then they are able to maintain freedom from oppression.

Now what we see happening is that, because of the utter selfishness of men, our citizens insist on using their rights for their own welfare and benefit instead of living unto God with concern for others. (each man does what is right in his own eyes). As a result the pattern is for government to step in and curb selfish tendencies. Although the constitution gives government no such right, they usurp power to act on behalf of what is called the "common good". So mens God given rights are trampled on and we have the current trend toward a welfare state with the inherent seeds of totalitarianism.

The sad thing is that this principle has infected the church where people react against the rule of the Holy Spirit and instead choose self-rule.

In Christ,


Ron Halverson

 2007/3/16 13:55Profile


Awesome, Ron! You're right on the money!

(altho America has never been a democracy... we're a Republic by design)


 2007/3/16 13:57

Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


America is not a democracy anyway. Never was. It is a Republic.There is a difference.

There is a difference.Not every republic is a democracy and not every democracy is a republic.

But, as it happens, the US is both.

There are different forms of democracy but america most definitly can be legitamitaly called one.

In the States capital D Democracy and capital R Republcanism can refer to the principles of the relevant parties but that is a different matter.

 2007/3/16 14:30Profile


Actually, democracy is rule of the majority of the people, whereas a repulic is rule of the majority of represenatives. This means that a particular represenative's constituents may want something to go one way, but the represenative has the power to go against the will of the people and take it the opposite direction. For instance, the majority of people may want cocaine legalized, but if their represenative believes they are wrong, he can vote against the will of the people. Of course, 9 months later he may find himself out of a job.

In a democracy it's "mob rule", as it were. The people vote on every little thing.

So no... we are not a democracy in the purest sense of the word.


 2007/3/16 15:16

Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


You are thinking of direct democarcy.

 2007/3/16 15:19Profile

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Original Intent

Hi eveyrone.


"Did you realize that in most states in the early years of our country, if you did not believe that there was at least a Diety... you could not hold public office? Can you imagine that today?"

I had posted the following in another thread and thought it would be appropriate to share here also. The copied portion from the post appears in qoutes below...

"...I'd like to share some things from a book I have titled Christianity and the American Commonwealth by Charles B. Galloway which states the following things about several of the State Constitutions:

of New Jersey(1776) it says

"all persons professing a belief in the faith of any Protestant sect,... should be capable of being members of either branch of the Legislature,..."

of New Hampshire

that it "authorised and empowered" the towns thereof, "to make proper and adaquate provision for the maintenance of 'pulic Protestant teachers of piety, religion, and morality.'"

of Deleware

that anyone who would hold public office should delcare "I do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ his Son, and the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed forevermore; and I do acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be given by divine inspiration."

of the organic law of North Carolina

that "no person who should deny the being of God, or the truth of the Protestant religion,....should be capable of holding any office or place of trust in the civil government of the state."

of Georgia(1777)

that every member of the House of Assembly "shall be of the Protestant religion."

Similar things are stated about the constitutions of South Carolina and Massachusetts as well."

[i]end qoute[/i]

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/3/16 18:17Profile


but too many believers either are too scared or think they cant beat the courts

I think that what it is Steve is that Christians are passive to this kind of stuff because they are putting all their hope in a Rapture, therefore it's not going to effect them.

I can't help but think of Margeret MacDonalds prophecy way back in the 1800's (I am not getting of topic), it's quite interesting. Her quote:
It was first the awful state of the land that was pressed upon me. I saw the blindness and infatuation of the people to be very great. I felt the cry of Liberty just to be the hiss of the serpent, to drown them in perdition.

LIBERTY is what has lulled us to sleep.

 2007/3/16 18:55

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


This was only true of only a few founding father... mainly Jefferson and Ben Franklin. But is certainly not true of John Adams, George Washington, etc.

Wasn't one of your first posts on this thread that we need men like Jefferson and Adams?

In terms of Washington, I was visiting goldrush country with my family on Highway 49 in California. I noticed that every town had a prominent Masons Lodge in it. In one museum we visited, there was a letter stating that George Washington had acted as the top Mason in the state of Virginia. I forget what they call that position but I know that one cannot be a Mason and a disciple of Christ at the same time...

Thomas Jefferson wrote his own bible. I guess that is why he was so ardent in supporting free speech...

In Christ

Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/16 21:41Profile


Wasn't one of your first posts on this thread that we need men like Jefferson and Adams?

Well, if you want to take what I said out of context and make it mean something I didnt mean, I can see why you would ask that.

However... John Adams was a very strong Christian man. It doesnt take but a few minutes of reading his writings to see that.

As for Jefferson, I am well aware of the fact that he was a Deist, and not a Christian. I mentioned that we needed more men like him today because he was the framer of our Constitution, and thus our laws (which were all based on the Bible, by the way), and he understood exactly what our Constitution meant... unlike most of the judges we have in this country.

AND... it was Jefferson who warned that if the courts in the United States were allowed to have too much power then it wouldnt be long before the judicial system would begin to act like the legislative system and begin decreeing law. Making laws instead of enforcing laws. Which is what we have today.

Hope that clarifies. And yes, I stand behind what I said... we need more men like Jefferson... as it pertains to our country's Constitution and Laws.

We dont need men like Jefferson in the pulpit... we already have enough non-Christians in the pulpit. Though I doubt if we had one more anyone would even notice.


 2007/3/19 7:38

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


hi krispy, I just wanted to add that things do look bad not only for christians but anyone standing up for decency.I remember a few years back when judge Roy moore lost to a makeshift federal court. He was actually on trial for displaying the 10 comandments.which are on display in our supreme court.This was a great loss for our country but was barely noticed.Roy does speak at churches by invitation.I heard him speak twice.Very impressive.Our nation is going down. The only thing holding it up is God, his angels and prayer. Also,we produce more missionaries and literature than anyplace else.We still have a powerfull thread of chritianity.anyway the shocker is this; Judge moore stood on the constitution and LOST!HE HAD THE HIGH GROUND! THEY HAD ZERO!.... God bless,David

 2007/3/19 8:53Profile

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